Get ready for an inspiring episode of the Give A Heck Podcast!

Join Dwight and his special guest, Lori Duguay, as they take you on a journey of personal growth and workplace healing.

*****Complete Show Transcript available below social media links*****

Lori, the CEO of People Person HR, shares her life experiences and insights into becoming an Employer of Choice by adopting people-centred approaches to leadership, talent development, and conflict resolution. She emphasizes the importance of finding one’s life purpose, owning one’s mistakes, and being vulnerable for personal growth.

Lori also shares a roadmap for organizations to improve their processes and help unhappy workers become happier. Tune in to learn more about the dangers of micromanaging, the significance of gratitude and celebration, and the impact of workplace culture on attracting and retaining clients.

Take advantage of this episode, packed with valuable insights and practical advice for individuals and organizations seeking to transform their workplaces and improve their lives!

In this episode, you’ll learn about…

  • Insights on Personal Growth and Development
  • Transforming Companies into Employers of Choice
  • Lessons on Maintaining a Positive Perspective
  • The Power of Employee Engagement
  • Overcoming the Dangers of Micromanagement
  • And much more!


About Lori Duguay:


Lori-Ann Duguay is the founder and CEO of The People Person: HR Growth Solutions. Her company helps organizations with a growth mindset to transform their talent management strategy and optimize their end-to-end employee journey, ensuring they offer the culture and experience to attract and retain top talent. Lori-Ann has 20+ years of experience working as an HR strategist in government, and combines her expertise with Everything DiSC Psychometric tools to provide organizations with training, tools, and resources required to unleash and maintain their team’s full potential. Her services help improve performance, profitability, growth, and employee engagement. Lori-Ann is also certified in Dispute Resolution and licensed to use Wiley’s Everything DiSC assessment products.

You can find Lori Duguay on…




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*****Complete show transcript below*****

Good day and welcome to give a heck on today’s show, I welcome Lori Duguay. As the CEO of the People Person HR, Lori knows what it takes to help companies transform to become employers of choice. She is an acclaimed speaker, coach and cultural catalyst. After a successful run of 20 plus years in increasingly senior roles working with the same organization, Lori had come to understand the opportunities and limitations that came with burying the golden handcuffs of a good pension and benefits. It was this experience that ultimately inspired her to build a new way of working. Creating highly motivating workspaces laced with meaningful and engaging employee experiences. Lori teaches leaders in their organizations how to adopt people centred approach to leadership, talent development and conflict resolution. Lori, in a nutshell, helps companies with growth mindset ignite organizational transformation by shaking up their workplace cultures. She helps build the end to end employee experience and leadership required to attract and retain talent they need to thrive in the new world of work. I’d like to welcome you to the show, Lori. Thanks so much for Green to come on and share with us some of your life journey.


Speaker B 00:01:24

Thanks for having me.


Speaker A 00:01:26

My pleasure. I’m looking forward to this, listeners and people watching. Lori and I became friends in the fall of 2022, and, yeah, we like having fun. So hopefully this is what I think it’s going to be. It’s going to be some hard truth, but it’s going to be mixed in with some humor and some sarcasm and I love it. So we’re going to get at her. Lori, one of the things I talked to you about before we started recording was the fact that I focus on a person’s origin because the good, bad and the ugly of our experiences, from our earliest recollections to where we are today, affects our lives, right? It affects who we are as people. We either choose to decide to follow the patterns of what we were taught by friends, family, et cetera, or we decide to manipulate those patterns because there’s some good or sometimes we just toss them out the window because they’re garbage and they didn’t serve us. And we learned from it, though, and it helped us build and become developed a resolve that we have today. So please share with me your origin stories from your earliest recollections of little Lori to where you are today, please.


Speaker B 00:02:36

Feels like that could be a very long story.


Speaker A 00:02:38

Perfect. I got a big cup of coffee. Let’s have at her. I’m game.


Speaker B 00:02:47

Okay. So I was raised in his family. We were reconstituted family, so a Brady Bunch before it was even cool to be reconstituted, before it was even a thing. So my parents separated when I was like four and a half, and then we moved in with my step dad, who had two children. My mom had three, and then they had one together, literally a Brady Bunch. It was a year’s wine and ours type situation. We may or may not have had a sign to that effect at the lake saying, welcome to yours, mine, and ours. So, being raised in a family with six kids, it was interesting, to say the least. Four boys, two girls, of which I’m the third eldest. So it’s always the resolve with a lot of people, a lot of loudness, lot of fun. I don’t know. Some friends preferred not to come over because they found it to be a bit overwhelming. It was extremely loud and busy. There was always something going on. When you talk about how your origins kind of inform who you are today, I absolutely believe in that. And it’s funny because if you look at just most families, although they’re all raised in the same household, the way that people navigate their experiences and help them, fuel them forward will really vary from one person to the next. So I would say that we were far from being a perfect family. Certainly we had our ups and downs. We had our trials and tribulations. But I’m of the mindset that you don’t ever fail. There’s no such thing as failure. It’s about you either learn or you grow. Right? So, for me, I find that I’ve taken whatever trials and tribulations we experienced in my youth, and I’ve used them to I guess it’s because of them that I am who I am today. Right. And it’s because our parents raised us the way they did that I am to the way I am today. I’ve always been someone who was extremely busy. I needed you know, I was the one who had four or five babysitting jobs that I juggled when I initially was babysitting. And then when I started working, I never just worked at one place. I had, like, three jobs because I just liked that that’s my level of functioning. That hustle level is where I excel and where my brain excels and even into, you know, when I started working for the government, that organization that was alluded to at the beginning of your intro. Even when I started with the government, I always had something going on on the side. I was either still in school on the side, or I had a side hustle of sorts. Mary kay yes. Makeup, it’s still a thing. It still exists, and I’ve been selling it for 26 years.


Speaker A 00:05:23

Wow. That’s another conversation.


Speaker B 00:05:26

That’s a whole other conversation that I’m okay with not having.


Speaker A 00:05:32

Before. Warrants. Don’t ask me about it.


Speaker B 00:05:35

And a travel agency, like, I’m still a travel agent as well. On the side. I’ve always been someone who’s been extremely busy. So I guess the busyness of my youth led to my wanting that level of busy at all times. Right. Certainly I’ve taken those experiences, and I see, I guess when you speak of origins, I’ve never heard of it Spoken that way. I like how you’ve kind of framed that. I see where a lot of my younger experiences have informed some of my adulthood kind of behaviors as well, and my values in general. And like I said, I had to work from a very young age. There were six kids. Although both parents had really good jobs, well, decent jobs, they couldn’t afford to provide us all with everything our heart desired all the time, right? So we worked for everything. And I think that really contributed to a really great work ethic as far as I’m concerned. And all of us, all six of us have great work ethics. We’ve all been able to successfully kind of thrive in life. And it’s funny because none of us took the same path. I believe I’m the only one well, I know I’m the only one who finished university. I’ve got two siblings who went through college. I have siblings who either went to college or tried college and just didn’t finish it or whatever, but they’ve all been able to be successful nonetheless, because they just have this grit, and I think that our youth has provided us with that grit. So there’s my origin story, I guess, up to there. When I left at our grade twelve, actually, I’m dating myself. Oac. So we had grade 13 back then. At our prom, I was voted at least likely to ever return to Northern Ontario, where I’m located. And for the longest time, I was the only one who had come back. So I left for university. Hated the city, hated the fact that I didn’t know anyone, was getting whiplash trying to find someone. I knew nobody. It was so big and so intimidating that I pursued the rest of my studies, my postsecondary university degree from home. So distance ed and I started out undergrad law, realized I didn’t really like the whole oppositional system that our judicial system is basically built on. So decided to change my major, just a general humanities major, and I went and got certified as a dispute resolution practitioner. So as a certified mediator negotiator, conflict analyst, and at the ripe age of 19 started my own practice because that’s what you want to do at 19 year old, at 19 years old. So as I was in school full time, I started my practice. I still to this day, don’t know what my mother was thinking, allowing me to start a mediation practice at 19, thinking, you know, if I’m getting separated as an adult now, I don’t think I’d want to go see a 19 year old to mediate the discussions. I don’t feel like that would be the most wise choice. But yeah, I did that. And then while I did it for eight months, gave it my all. And yes, eventually there was an opportunity that came up with government, and I applied and got that job, basically negotiating for projects with government. And fast forward 21 years later, I was still there but about 15 to 16 years into my tenor, I realized that my brain was dead. I didn’t have a challenge. I didn’t have any opportunities for growth. I was up here in northern Ontario. Virtual working wasn’t even a thing yet. God, if that pandemic had just happened earlier. Totally. That’s why I’ve done that telework. Anyway, so I went back to school to do my postgrad, my postgraduate degree in HR management, labor relations, and started doing consulting on the side because I needed another side hustle. And so I started doing that, but it got to the point where I was using up pretty much all my time off to do projects. And I started to realize really quickly how much there was a demand for some of the expertise that I’d accumulated over my career as well as with my education. So I decided to take a year off, take a leap and try it full time to see if it could be a full time gig and never look back. It’s been two and a half years now and I have zero regrets. And it was a huge decision to leave those golden handcuffs, right? That pension and that benefits. I remember when I started talking about it, people were like, why are you complaining? You’ve got a great gig. Like you’ve got all this time off and you’ve got pension and benefits. Do you know that you’ve got one of the bank’s pensions with government? And I was like, okay, but I’m not going to sit around for another 20 years with a brain that feels like it’s dying.


Speaker A 00:10:25

Yellow brain.


Speaker B 00:10:26

So, jello for me. Here he is. Was that like a long origin story.


Speaker A 00:10:32

Or was it a no, that’s perfect. Yeah, just smiling because of some of the things you said, like from The Brady Bunch, you’ve had some trials and tribulations, just like us, all character building moments, up and down. Yeah, I like that though. You also said you’re a person that always needed to be busy throughout your childhood. Like multiple things on the go, whether it’s multiple jobs, just multiple things, you’re always go, go, go. So I find the best entrepreneurs that I’ve associated with and met are people that are always on the climb and they’re wanting to be outside of their comfort zone. In order to do that, though, you have to be willing to take on more and more. And sometimes I don’t know about yourself, but sometimes I’ve taken on too much. I think I mentioned that before we started recording. And then I get a little bit overwhelmed and I have to dial things back because in the things that actually put bread and eggs and bacon on the table get a little bit lax because I get this little butterfly. Nice butterfly. I get the butterfly effect and I’m like, I want to try this out. Meanwhile, there’s things over here that I should on my plate that I should have been satiating myself with and I got the butterfly effect going on. So I’ve kind of worked on that throughout my life. But driven people are driven and it doesn’t mean we don’t get camped once in a while. So I won’t touch on the Mary Kay thing except to tell you that my one sister couple of pink Cadillacs.


Speaker B 00:12:14

He’S going to say, I don’t have a pink Cadillac. And even if I had a pink Cadillac up here in northern Ontario, it probably wouldn’t be pink.


Speaker A 00:12:23

Now they give them SUVs, right? It’s not even a mid size SUVs or whatever because my sister left. She couldn’t handle the politics of it. Once you get up and that big into that company, there’s lots of politics, right? And she got tired of babysitting all the agents and stuff. But anyway, that being said, I just love being able to do their makeup is great. I’ll say that.


Speaker B 00:12:47

Their products are great. Oh, you’ve used their makeup before.


Speaker A 00:12:50

I’ve had some of their skin cleanser. No mascara. I got no eyelashes. I got to go get some fake eyelashes put on. I want to go sit and lay there for an hour and a half, 2 hours like some ladies do and get fake eyelashes. Ones that are going to scrape on the inside of my glasses. That’s what I’m like.


Speaker B 00:13:11

The part I loved about it, I said no doubt it. But I still have to share that even if tomorrow I would win the lottery, I still uphold that one of the things I would do. Because when I started out with them, I had no kids. I had nothing to keep me busy other than my school, my job. So I would do these parties, right, which I haven’t done in years. Or I would do weddings and prom makeup. So when I do the wedding makeup, I would get like the mother of the bride and the grandmother of the bride and to see their faces, like when they were done with their makeup, they’re like, oh my God, is this really me? And they would be so like I don’t know.


Speaker A 00:13:44

You get to it’s a warm and fuzzy feeling, right?


Speaker B 00:13:48

It’s a warm and fuzzy feel. Lottery. That’s it. What I’m doing, I’m filling my days going into nursing homes and just old age residences. I’m just going to do everybody’s makeup. Whoever wants makeup, I’m going to do all their makeup just to give them that warm and fuzzy feeling for themselves. Yeah, that is me or yourself daily.


Speaker A 00:14:09

I had a kit, even I had a code with Mary Kay. It was pretty cool.


Speaker B 00:14:14

I’m loving this. I never thought we would go here.


Speaker A 00:14:18

But you know what? This is life, though. My podcast isn’t a conversation. It’s supposed to be. We share stuff, we laugh, we get serious. It’s just like life. Like when I go and do speeches, it should be a rollercoaster ride of emotions. And then you end up with a happy, right? Hopefully you’re going to end up with a happy right, Keno?


Speaker B 00:14:41



Speaker A 00:14:43

Tons of pressure. What are you talking about? Yeah, remember the smart ass dumbass comment, right? Don’t forget.


Speaker B 00:14:52

It’s a really wise choice, though. I like the nuance between the two that if you’re going to aspire for something, I’m thinking that the smart ass is probably the more logical choice.


Speaker A 00:15:01

Pick me. That’s why that’s why Hirsch loved me so much, because two nights sat at that bar in Ontario and visited after our conference, he was like, you just say what’s on your mind, don’t you? I said yes. Pretty much.


Speaker B 00:15:18

I noticed that pretty early on with you as well.


Speaker A 00:15:21

Yeah, you take me as I am, and you know what? I’m politically, politely, blunt until I’m not, and then you might have been throw chopped, most part. Did I say that out loud? That is my voice.


Speaker B 00:15:35

I struggle with the inside voice. I struggle with the inside voice, and I struggle with the I struggle with the non verbal. I’m also my first language is French, as you know. Right?


Speaker A 00:15:44



Speaker B 00:15:45

My nonverbal often will tell a story before my lips have started to tell it as well. I’ve got to roll my tongue and make sure I’m aware of the eyes.


Speaker A 00:15:56

I have permanent scars inside of my cheeks.


Speaker B 00:15:59



Speaker A 00:16:03

I’m serious. My dad just one time says, man, you got some, it looks like, scarred in there. And I said, Dude. I said, what do you expect? I raised five kids and four more girls. I bit the inside of my mouth a lot because I didn’t want to deal with all the drama. And then I have clients that I’d be telling them stuff, and then they wouldn’t listen, and then I’d be hearing it again. Yeah, I just bite the inside of my cheeks, and, you know, it’s hidden.


Speaker B 00:16:38

How is your dad seeing the inside of your cheek?


Speaker A 00:16:41

No, not my dad, my dentist.


Speaker B 00:16:43

Oh, your dentist.


Speaker A 00:16:46

No. What kind of supper is like, look at this dog. For those listening, I just pulled my cheek back and showed Lori an inside look at my anyway, let’s let’s move on for that. But, you know, it’s it’s amazing, though, you know, 21 years in government, and then all of a sudden you decided to go back to school, and everything that you’ve done is a stepping stone and a pivot to help you develop into what you’re doing today. For the last two and a half years, it’s still a combination of all your life experiences. And I don’t talk about mistakes because I despise the word. It’s only a mistake if you don’t learn and try to correct it or use it as a certain that’s a stepping stone. Right. So for me, it’s a life lesson, and we’re a combination, you and I, of our life lessons throughout life. Even from your original origin, growing up with your siblings, that’s all life lessons that you’ve internalized to develop a pattern of who you want to be and how you show up in the world. And the nice thing about what I love about you is you are constantly trying to improve how you show up. And that’s the best type of person, the best type of leader to serve and mankind and humankind. So I appreciate that about you. Definitely. Right.


Speaker B 00:18:12

Thank you. Two things about what you just said, it’s almost been, like, eerie how much I’ve realized that every time that door did not open, it wasn’t meant to be my door. Every time that I even got an opportunity that I was like, say, I’d applied, I’m thinking of a specific I’d applied at one point for two positions with the government. One was my backup plan. I wasn’t really interested in it. The other one was really what I was passionate about. It was all about business process, re engineering, and just really making things much more efficient and working on different processes, whatever. I didn’t get that one. I got the other one. And I was like, oh, but at least it’s something. It’s the first kind of growth opportunity.


Speaker A 00:18:56

I’ve you had to settle.


Speaker B 00:18:58

So I settled, but had I not settled, I wouldn’t be where I am today. It’s so funny that every time there was a fork in the road and it ended up fork in a way that maybe that’s not what I had planned now, where I’m at now and how the business is going and how it’s just really organically blown up, it’s really showing me that, no, there was no wrong turn. It was always exactly how it was meant to be. And it’s almost eerie sometimes when you think about the mediation thing. What was I thinking? My first contract with my business was to do a conflict analysis. And it was someone who approached me in an airport. We were talking, they were asking why I was in Toronto. And I was saying, Well, I’d been asked to do a workshop, to build a workshop on conflict management in the workplace. So I just on the fly, put something together, went out and offered it. That’s why I was there. And then he said to me, hey, we’ve been having conflict within four of our different institutions for an ongoing basis of at least 510 years, and we’ve been wanting to bring someone in to really do a deep dive and figure out what’s been going on. And I was like, in my brain, right? You never say no, you make it work, or you find the people who are going to be able to make it work. So I said, Absolutely, I could do that for you. Well, that was my first big contract. And again, just the serendipitous nature of the fact that I started out in mediation never thought when I you know, for 21 years I worked in government, I did not do any conflict management or resolution, but they’re not skills that you lose. But never thought I’d actually get back into it. And I absolutely love that part of my business as well. Right. And I’m still offering conflict resolution on a regular basis. So all I say, it’s crazy how much every time there’s that fork in the road that you think and you’re disappointed initially sometimes it’s to reframe that as what is this teaching me? What is this preparing me for down the road? Right. And to be okay with that whole not sound woo woo, but the divine timing, right? Like that things are going to materialize when they’re meant to materialize. Even the people I met, when you and I met without going in depth into that conference and how it went, I didn’t know if we would stay connected. And then you were able to introduce me to your network and to other opportunities that came from there. Everything happens for a reason. Absolutely. They make you who you are. But even that wrong door, like if you keep trying to open that same door and it’s just not opening to realize that, you know what, that door was never meant for me. I need to do something different.


Speaker A 00:21:24

Right, well, you’re 100% right. And bottom line, things happen for us, not to us. And it’s hard though, as human beings for us to accept that fact. And we try keeping on wanting to open that door, as you mentioned, and we come on, open up, open up. And really across the hallway, across the street is another door that’s blinking. Pick me, pick me, come open me.


Speaker B 00:21:52

I’ve already decided this is the one.


Speaker A 00:21:54

I’ve already decided I’m going to stay stubborn and pig headed and I’m going to open this damn door if I have to use dynamite. I get it. It’s so true though, right? Look where it’s taking you, the path. And as you mentioned, us meeting and us having a conversation and us talking about my book. And then I referenced Tony, who wrote the foreword for it and why he would be a good fit for you. I coach people, but I’m not the right fit for you. He’s the right fit for you. Right. He’s the guy that you needed to be with because he’s spicy like you.


Speaker B 00:22:35

There you go.


Speaker A 00:22:37

Right. I’m just going to call it like it is. But yeah, you’re right.


Speaker B 00:22:43

Mike as well. You had reference, I remember us restaurant in the hotel.


Speaker A 00:22:46

Well, I talked to you about Mike and that I’d introduce.


Speaker B 00:22:48

I got to tell you about how I went about with my book and you talked about Mike, but then Tony ended up connecting me back.


Speaker A 00:22:54



Speaker B 00:22:54

I know Dwight. Dwight talked about you first.


Speaker A 00:22:57

Yeah, Mike. I gave him a hard time. I messaged him. I said, so you got somebody indirectly because of me. You owe me, brother. And I was teasing him and he was texting me back and forth. But that’s just our relationship, right? Things happen for a reason, right? I didn’t push you. I didn’t reach out to you anymore about it. And he still got to the same place because like you said, my network is now your network and I’m part of your network. And we’re just going to continue to expand and grow as entrepreneurs. The whole goal in life is to keep information flowing and that’s done through networking and connection and unity and synergy. And we may not like everything about one another, but we got enough commonality where we’re going to help each other continue to serve the population, to serve humankind, to better themselves. And even that person you met in the airport, I love that story and about conflict resolution and you saying, you know what, even if you’re not sure, you always say yes. I’ve done that so many times in my life. I remember the first time I was asked to come up and speak on stage. This was, oh my gosh, this must have been probably 20 years ago now, maybe a little bit longer. And I was just like, my insides are going no. And I’m sitting there controlling my body. So I’m trying not to project that. Okay, I’ll do it. Okay, I’ll do it. And I was scared. coupus. I should have been wearing the pens, right? I literally went up there and I got off the stage. Nobody knew that I was nervous because once I started talking and I collected because I’m an introvert, people don’t realize that I’m severely introverted. I’ve had to force myself to be an extrovert because I’m an Empath and it makes it really hard. I didn’t realize until a few years ago that I am an Empath and I’ve been getting coached by a friend of mine, she’s an Empath coach. Just to understand how it affects me and why it affected me raising my kids. But anyway, back to the speaking thing. When I was on that stage, I was given energy more than I was receiving it, which is what mostly an Empath is. And I loved it.


Speaker B 00:25:13

I was going to say that I.


Speaker A 00:25:14

Drank the Kool Aid.


Speaker B 00:25:16

I love you. You drank the Koolaid. I love your story because I remember the first time I was asked to MC, it was an all staff. I was with government. It was an all staff and I was the second choice, which that’s no whole other story. I guess I was a backup plan without knowing I was a backup plan. And it was the following day and I said to them, okay, but I used that. Like, that kind of my whole what went through my mind as my intro when I started, I was welcoming people at the conference and I said, this is pretty last minute, to be quite honest. Like I found out last night and where some people are just naturally funny, I need to calculate my funny. My funny is very calculated, very scripted. So I just want to manage expectations here and let you all know, Walter, they’re erupting and laughter. And it was so funny because I found that the best material when you’re in front of a crowd is yourself.


Speaker A 00:26:09

Through your absolutely right.


Speaker B 00:26:12

When things get a bit tense, you could say, wow, this is a little uncomfortable. And suddenly it’ll kind of break the ice. And that was one of my first experiences as a public speaker. And I realized how much not as a public speaker, but as an official kind of MC or I drank the Kool Aid that day, too. I remember coming off that stage and calling my husband and saying, like, I feel high. I feel like I am on something, but I swear to God, I’ve not had any alcohol or anything. It’s just so wettering.


Speaker A 00:26:45



Speaker B 00:26:46

The way that you just described it, it’s probably that.


Speaker A 00:26:51

I went into a back room because that’s when I used to wear suits every single day. And I took off my jacket and thank goodness I had the jacket on because I had sore with one big ball of sweat. And I had hair back then yet, and I literally was just dripping. Oh my God, the whole experience. And I just sat there and people come into the room I was in and I was vibrating. Are you okay? Oh yeah, I’m good. I’m just sitting here trying not to pass out.


Speaker B 00:27:27

Okay. It was good earlier when you talked about your purpose and just understanding your purpose, and again, this whole notion of I find my purpose has shown up for me in bits and pieces. It’s kind of like a puzzle, right? You get these experiences and suddenly you’re like, I really enjoyed that. And I’m actually really good at that, I think, right? And it’s so weird that it only happens in adulthood. I’m coaching someone right now, and she’s in the very, very early years of her career, early twenty s, and she’s like, well, I want to, you know, I want to, I want to be where you’re at. And how do you navigate? Telling her like, I wanted to be there too. At your age, I was that driven. I was like you. But I now realize it’s all an accumulation, right? It’s an accumulation life lessons that gets you where you’re at. And that purpose of we talked about, you said you’re an empath, and at one point I was thinking, like, what’s my purpose on Earth? Why am I here? And I thought, there’s only like the Reiki healers and these healers and there’s doctors, I think. And it’s weird. I’ve decided I have my own purpose that has to do with workplaces. I’m supposed to make people happier at work, ultimately, which is maybe not the traditional woo woo kind of a healer, but I’m supposed to heal workplaces and make people happier. At work and make them want to be there because they spend like eight to 10 hours. Not necessarily a traditional, I guess.


Speaker A 00:29:01

Degree person from university or a college that is designed to follow a specific regiment of how to help people. Yours is like mine. It’s based on origin. It’s based on your life lessons and going from one type of work to another to another. And that makes us the best type of person to help heal. Whether it’s healing because you’re at the top of the workplace healing, but really it’s a flow down process where the whole thing, when you heal the workplace, you heal the individual. When you deal with the individual and you heal them, they’re going home happier. Their work now is a joyous thing. They’re getting up with a quicker step. They’re feeling better. They’re going to be, yes, absolutely. Maybe the addictions that they had, drinking every single day or doing whatever their addiction is as lessened, or maybe they are so happy or busy, then all of a sudden they realize, I haven’t done that in a few days. And I’ve had those conversations with people. When you heal somebody, that’s a good thing. And yours is even that much better because yours is from the top down, not from just dealing with one individual at a time, calling you up, saying, my work sucks.


Speaker B 00:30:17

Yeah, for sure. And it is top down. That holistic approach. Right, too. I’m going to fix all the way that you guys actually manage your people. I hold that mirror. Sometimes I have to hold a mirror up to say, hey, if this was your experience coming in here and you’re being onboarded, you’re sat at a desk where there’s pre tube pens from the former owner, how would you feel about that? Would you feel like, wow, I’m so excited about this new job. To hold that mirror up, to help them realize some of the growth opportunities they might have. But sometimes it’s to hold a light up, to start to help them see opportunities where they’d never even fathom. Right? And to be able to have that ability and to be able to do that. But the purpose thing I want to say, like, I told you really quickly, that I lost my mom about nine years ago, right? And afterwards it sent me into a bit of a tailspin. And this is where I realized I wasn’t happy at work, and I realized that life wasn’t guaranteed. I didn’t get like I was planning a lot or I’d go back to school. Once my kids were older, I would do so much. Once my kids were older, I would move to the lake once I retired. Everything was in the future, focused. Right. There was nothing happening now. And so I started to think, I need to start making changes, and I need to take whatever biggest little step I can take now to start getting closer to whatever that endgame is. And then I thought, but what is my end game? And I’m not embarrassed to say this. I’ve told people before I went to Dr. Google, how to find your life purpose. Oh, yeah, I googled that.


Speaker A 00:31:51

There’s nothing wrong with that. You know what, though? There’s people on here that are listening or watching. Maybe they’ll do that, or maybe they’ll reach out to you or myself. Like, my whole book is give a heck how to live life on purpose. Not by accident, but it’s based on my origin. It’s based on the fact that I had to figure it out. It’s all what we’ve been talking about, the life lessons, the little nuances from even the effects of what it was like to be a paperboy, right? To be a paper carrier. Just people discounted and knowing our purpose and sticking with a purposeful. Life is a work in progress every day, the rest of your life. So those listening, you’re not going to just have it’s not a magical push, A, B, or C, and you’re just going to have it all unfold. You still have to put in the work. You have to go to the school of hard knocks. You have to oh, my gosh. I have to apologize. I said this the wrong way. You need to be a person that can own your shit. Oh, I believe this today, Lori, about how I do this. You know what? And I stick with that. Even though it’s now wrong. Maybe it was right initially. Now it’s not. Being humble, being kind, being a person that is willing to be vulnerable and stick your foot in your mouth once in a while, but then own that.


Speaker B 00:33:09

Own it. Own it.


Speaker A 00:33:10

Own that shit. Absolutely.


Speaker B 00:33:13

One of the and I like what you’re saying. It is. It’s heavy lifting. It’s hard work. But often I’ll get people to say, how did you figure it out? And I’m not like that. Google led to a few really cool questions. If people, if any of your listeners are thinking about, like, how do I even start to figure it out? There was one. It was, what made you lose track of time? It’s funny because the question is, now that I look at how you approach your podcast, the questions are all from your origin. When you were a kid, what were some of the things that made you lose track of time? What were some of the things that when your parents called you in for supper, you were like, you had to stop doing right? And to start to think about what were the parts of that thing that I really enjoyed, what really filled my cup, and then, how can I actually get that in adulthood? So obviously, once I realized being a 90s hip hop dancer was probably not a viable career choice, okay, well, I’ve always loved to bring people together. I’ve always loved getting people I was always the one who would organize the activities with our friends and get people together. And when there were fights, I work at getting them to resolve them because I hated having that ongoing conflict. And once I started to kind of link that up, I like to bring people together and help them function better with one another. Okay. This is starting to lead me towards a path of what might actually be something that I would find fulfilling. Right.


Speaker A 00:34:44

But purpose gives us life fulfillment. People just don’t understand that. I had somebody I posted something this week. I posted a snippet of a talk I did in the fall of 2021 in Sandy, Utah, right out of Salt Lake City, and it’s a 14 minutes speech that I actually made my podcast episode this week. So people. Could be introduced to because not everybody’s going to go to my site, click on my speaker button and go listen to the short four minute reel or the first 14 minutes of the speech, which is only 14 minutes long, but it’s designed around purpose and intent. And the fact that somebody commented on it saying, well, that’s fine and dandy, but they were being a little bit negative. And my response to it was, in my life, when I live with intent and purpose, I am the happiest that I can possibly be. Happiness for those listening and watching is not something that you can just pick up off a shelf or somebody can gift to you. You have to gift it to yourself. Yes. You have to forgive yourself for things that have gone on, even if it’s something that you can’t change or the person will never forgive you or the group or whatever the case may be. Start off by forgiving yourself and realizing that my purpose. And I like how you put it with, what makes you lose track of time? That is so true. What makes your heart skip a beat? And I tell people, let’s talk about things, and I’ll ask them, Why? And they’ll tell me something, why is that? And I’ll say, throughout this period of time, does any of that stuff make you stop breathing? What do you mean by that? Does anything make you take your breath away for a minute and you realize, I haven’t been breathing? And what are your body triggers? Are you feeling warm and fuzzy? Is your chest tight? Like, what is causing this? That’s all to help them focus toward what their true purpose is, not what their parents, their family, their church been told, this is the purpose for your life. Right. I’ve been through so many things. Like, people, when they ask me I never even put everything in my book. Some of the things that I’ve done and realized that like, Hector the, no, I’m not doing that for living or, no, I’m not doing that no more. Oh, it pays well. I don’t care. It’s money, truth money. Yeah. I like that. It doesn’t line with my truth is right. I need to be me. And working on purpose takes effort and don’t expect it to happen overnight. You know that as well as I do.


Speaker B 00:37:21

I love that. It takes effort. And I think sometimes I’ve got teenagers, right? So I’ll often say, sorry for your luck.


Speaker A 00:37:30

Yeah, my teenagers are done.


Speaker B 00:37:33

Sorry, go on. Some days I’ll often tell my daughter, I need you to stop wishing for it. It’s like you expect this to magically appear. Don’t wish for it. Work for it. Start to make it happen. What is it that you can do to take one step closer to that? There’s something you could be doing right now, I’m sure of it, that would actually take you closer towards your goal. Right. And so many people kind of assume that they’re going to show up. Opportunities are going to show up on their own. Maybe you want to reach out. Maybe you want to start researching. You’re not happy in your job, and you know that that employer or that company will never be able to offer you what you need to find that happiness. Okay, so start thinking about what could that next chapter of your career look like? Which employers might be of interest? Maybe you look at the top five employers who you know what’s really important for you at work. Top five employers who offer that. There you go. Then suddenly you’ve got a list of things. Reach out to one of them or go check out their websites, even if it’s not even reaching out, because that’s a bit intimidating for you. Maybe. Well, maybe just check out the website or their career opportunities. Where are some of the career opportunities? Okay, are you qualified for that? What could you be doing to actually make sure that you are qualified in the short future? Right? Like, just things like that. Make it happen. Start to worship some of those goals.


Speaker A 00:38:55

You’re right. And so many people, they sit and think, and they’re going to manifest. It like, no offense to the secret, but the secret is so much more than manifesting. You still have to. And I always talk about this and my mentor and now both of our friends, tony, his most famous speech, you can go find it on YouTube, is like, four minutes long. And it’s about ABC, action, belief, consistency. It’s great to manifest the fact that you want to be a millionaire. And I’ll say to people, or I want to be a business owner, or I want to advance in my career and be the VP, and I’ll talk to them, okay, that’s great. Why? And what are you going to do to do that? Well, I’m just going to think positive thoughts and blah, blah, BS. That ain’t going to work. What actions are you taking? Your belief is that you can do it, but now you have to have actions in order to sustain and prove that belief. And then the most important is C, are you consistent? Are you going to be a person that works at it? What are you listening to? What are you watching? Who are you associating with? You have to look at the whole big picture, the big plate of your life, and go, oh, my gosh, I ate too much of this in my life buffet of this type of person, and they are not going to help me level up and climb. They’re an anchor in my life. What can I do? Oh, I don’t know what to do. Yeah, you take what you like and leave what you don’t. I talk about the life buffet all the time with people. That’s the way I treat my life. And you know what? People aren’t meant to be with you forever in every season of your life. And there’s ways to work around that. There’s ways to stop your mind from being on the hamster wheel of life and literally being camped on a daily basis. And you’re the type of person every single day when somebody asks you, how was your day? I had a shitty day. I had this day, that day. I don’t have bad days. And that’s possible. Yes. Those are brand new listening people are loyal. Listeners have heard me talk about a loss. It’s easy to have a point in your life where every single day is good because you choose it to be. You have bad moments. I’m not saying I don’t have character building moments in my life, character building days. But at the end of the day, I have learned that, you know, my destiny, my future, is based on me. And I’m not pointing fingers at nobody. Right. Just going to associate with great people like Lori and Tony and associate with people like Mike that are going to help level me up and call me out of my shit. Because guess what? If I coach you, I’m going to call you out on your shit. I will. Right.


Speaker B 00:41:28

Your accountability partner. Right. You’re there to hold the Macabre.


Speaker A 00:41:31

Absolutely. And that’s what Tony does to me. Right. And that’s what even people won’t know who he is. But another gentleman that we met at that event, Hirsch, same sort of idea. We’re trying to help each other because sometimes we can’t get out of our own way.


Speaker B 00:41:47

No, exactly. And it’s nice to have a network of people who can help you get out of the sorry. That can help you to get out of your own way. Absolutely. And to shift your perspective. I love it. I love there’s no such thing as a bad day. And you have told me about that theory before, and I remember sharing with you my mom, when she got sick, it was a four month start to finish kind of situation. And I remember her being like we were trying not to have any moments in front of her and she’s like, no, I want you to have your moments. We’re all entitled to our moments. And these words of wisdom have accompanied me for, like, after she laughed every day, is that you can all have a moment. We’re all entitled. Have your moment. What you’re not entitled to do is unpack in that moment and to just.


Speaker A 00:42:28

Stay there and camp.


Speaker B 00:42:30

Right. No camping allowed. You can have your moment and then pick yourself up, move on, knowing that you’re entitled to unlimited moments. If you need another moment in 2 hours, you can have that one, too.


Speaker A 00:42:42

Time yourself out. I do.


Speaker B 00:42:44

Don’t camp there.


Speaker A 00:42:45

Just keep going.


Speaker B 00:42:46

Right. I love it.


Speaker A 00:42:47

Time yourself out during your bad moments. Right? That’s what I do. I time myself out. I give myself but I teach people, I coach them and figure out their pattern of how to get out of those bad moments. And then how many people today, Lori, including the workplace stuff you work from top down, if they learn to have gratefulness and a gratitude mindset, their lives would be so much better. Right. We got this next project and they’re beating themselves up, yet they had a successful project that finished the week before and they forgot to celebrate it, even.


Speaker B 00:43:21

For celebrate that way.


Speaker A 00:43:23

And then they don’t have the appreciation that, oh, kid, this time it was a win. The next time it could be a grind, a struggle. But you know what? We know we can get through it because we just had this win. So it’s okay to stay temporarily anchored in that wind, not let it hold you back and jump on the hamster.


Speaker B 00:43:39

Wheel and be that person does that. I’m good. We got the wind, we’re done. I think we were put on Earth to evolve. We weren’t put on Earth to stagnate. Right?


Speaker A 00:43:50

Ultimately, absolutely.


Speaker B 00:43:52

The same people who tend to complain about all the things that are going wrong are also those who complain of never winning the lottery despite never having bought a ticket, right?


Speaker A 00:44:02



Speaker B 00:44:05

Have you ever bought a ticket? How frequently do you buy tickets? Not that by all means saying go out and buy lottery tickets or start gambling. I’m just saying it’s a cart before the horse type.


Speaker A 00:44:15

Well, it’s true, though, because as we were talking about how many people want to manifest based on the secret yet, well, what are you doing if you want to get this career advancement? What are you doing if you want things to work out with your significant other? What are you doing? Your kids are an actor. Are you figuring out how to maybe change you so that you can help them change? Because sometimes maybe you have to admit you’re the issue. Right. And that’s tough for people to slap themselves around, and I’ve gotten good at that.


Speaker B 00:44:46

You’re hitting a nail there. You’re hitting out authority. Is it a nail or my friends coming up, you hit something, right? I had a moment this week where I teach people the importance of not micromanaging and how micromanaging will lead to a lack of confidence in your employees. And you think that you’re just being efficient by telling them what needs to be done, giving them answers and just checking up on them. But what you’re actually doing is making them feel like they’re not capable of doing it themselves, and you’re not really empowering them or coaching them. Right? In my day, I sign off for the day, and I go downstairs and I asked my daughter to do something, and I’m like, literally ten minutes later, hey, where are we at with that? Did you get that done? That is it. And I’m like, oh, my God, I’m micromanaging my daughter. I am not walking the talk. It was a bit of a moment this week that I guess parents can be micromanagers too.


Speaker A 00:45:42

But that epiphany is amazing, though.


Speaker B 00:45:44

It’s like, wow, I’m a micromanager too.


Speaker A 00:45:48

But you know what? By speaking, that’s another thing people need to do when you realize that you’ve made a poor choice, right? Words are important and not a mistake, a poor choice. You’re willing to speak it out loud, and you’re willing to own that. And here’s one thing I will say, and I’m not saying this in regards to necessarily your daughter, just to people in general. If you make a mistake we talked about a little bit earlier, be humble, admit it, and just say, you know what? I’m sorry. It was so tough for me with my kids as a single dad. I’d realize that I maybe came a little bit too much unglued. And I’d go and I knock, knock, knock, or they’d come down for supper. I’d cook supper, and I’d say to them, they come down. If it was needed to be private, I’d pull them into a room. If it could be in front of everybody, just say, you know what? I’m sorry about before. Dad has this and this and that going on. That’s not an excuse. It’s a reason. There’s a difference, people listening between reasons and excuses as well, because people need to understand. They don’t. They wrap things into the same little basket and say it’s the same. This is the reason why there’s no excuse for my behavior. All I’d say to you is, next time that won’t happen. I promise you that. And I keep my promises, right? And if it happens again, you can call me out immediately. Maybe I won’t be able to unpack and deal with it right then because maybe I just have too much angst and you’re in my sphere of blah, and I just need to time myself out.


Speaker B 00:47:21

I like it.


Speaker A 00:47:22

Pardon me?


Speaker B 00:47:23

A sphere of blah.


Speaker A 00:47:25

I like it. It is what it is. I’m a work in progress, but I want to get on to a couple more things here. We’re having such a great conversation. So you help so many successful leaders learn how to build relationships, and organizations developed people centered approach to leadership, conflict resolution, the list goes on. When you start working initially with organizations, can you please share with us what’s the process that you start on initially? And do you get a lot of pushback from organizations initially when you do start your processes?


Speaker B 00:48:02

Interesting. I like that question. Pushback. Not to sound by any means arrogant, but I tend to work with organizations who have realized that they can no longer continue doing what they’re doing. What is it Einstein’s quote that if you always do what you’ve always done and you always get what you’ve always gotten, well, then they’ve started to recognize that. So that’s why when you in the intro talked about that growth mindset. So I’ve worked with organizations who are already on board, and that’s the one those are the clients that I choose to work with. I’ve had people where they’re like, well, convince us why we need you, and what is it? Gracefully, or I just thank you, but I want to work with organizations who understand the value of investing in their people. So in terms of the process, I think with anything, we first start by saying I share and I educate. In terms of what are some of the things that make people want to show up to work, but not just show up to work and occupy space or be a tenant, as I refer to them, the workplace? What makes them want to really thrive? And so once they get a better understanding of what that employee experience needs to look like, so we get that vision piece out of the way, we start to strike their baseline. Where are we at today? How are we currently doing things right? And then we map it out. We talk about from the moment that you’re pitching yourself to prospective talent, how are you doing that? How are you actually, from a brand perspective, making people excited already before they even apply to work for you, once you’re bringing them in. And then so we map out that whole employee experience when they’re going through the interview process, when they’re being brought into the organization, when they’re being integrated into intact teams, how are we doing that? How are we facilitating connection? And then even once they’re fully trained, how are we continuing to invest in their growth and development? Because I said it earlier, we weren’t put here to stagnate so employees either. So how are you continuing to fuel that development? And what are some of the processes and exercises that you’re doing to be able to not only track where they want to grow, but inform them where there’s potential to grow? And how are you equipping your leaders to be able to have those conversations with them to say, okay, I seen on your performance development plan that you’re interested in this position. Let’s think about what are some of the skills that you think you’ve already got under your belt and relevant to that position? Where is there may be some stretch opportunities. And let’s start to make those things happen so that if and when that position opens up, you’ve actually got the experience you need to be able to confidently step into this. And ascend to this next role within our company. Right? So it’s this notion of being able to grow your internal talent, attract that high performing talent, and then kind of nurture it on an ongoing basis. The last part of that employee experience is the exit, which is sometimes inevitable, but I still have them be aware of how to do an exit and protect your brand, your reputation, to make sure that they’re leaving. And they’re not talking bad things about your organization. They’re still really saying great things about your organization. How are you using that exercise as an organization to gather some valuable kind of gold in terms of continuous improvement opportunities for you? How can you do better? How could they have not made the decision to leave? What would they have needed? Right? So then you’re able to continuously grow that experience internally based on some of the data gathered through those exit interviews and those exit exercises. So that’s typically the process. I work with them at developing that whole plan and what needs to be built. Then we identify, okay, we’re already doing this. So if you tweak it like that, that would be a lot more engaging. And you’d be providing this, that, and the other thing. So we do like a plan of short term, quick wins kind of things. And then the shorter term, medium, longer term things that need to be built, designed or optimized. And then we divide and conquer. Usually I work with them so I get their people on board. I don’t bring my people in. I bring them so that they’ve got the capacity to maintain this stuff on a long term basis, but also that it has the flavor of their organization. That I’m not this outsider coming in and imposing this methodology. That’s very boxed, rigid methodology. No, it’s very customized and unique to their realities and to their operations.


Speaker A 00:52:24

Yeah, that’s awesome. I love how you talked about working with the people that you have to teach them how to do exit. So somebody isn’t fitting anymore. And along the way, had they done things differently, maybe they could have fostered that person better and that person wouldn’t have to exit because now they have to exit because it’s too far gone. And there is a point in time in corporations and business from my own experience where it’s too little, too late. It is a reality. But by sitting down with that person and maybe that’s I don’t know how you do it, but I know myself. I’ve told people you sit down and say, you know what? This is what you’ve done well with our company. Unfortunately, you don’t seem happy, and we really care about you. We want you to be happy in life and what can we do to help you move forward away from here? Because I don’t think there’s a fit for us anymore, that we appreciate your talent and what you’ve done for us. And maybe they’ll say, well, no, I want to stay and let’s work on this, because now they’re being heard for once.


Speaker B 00:53:36



Speaker A 00:53:37

But then you also need to realize that maybe they’ll be the person that goes, you’re right. I’m not happy. Thank you for recognizing that. And they’ll be the person that leaves and says, you know what? Things didn’t work out for me there. But they were kind enough to be kind to me about it. They didn’t call me in and fire my ass. Right. Or whatever.


Speaker B 00:53:56

They helped you out. Right? They helped yeah.


Speaker A 00:53:58

Be a relationship, be a person that loves on people and realizes that just in relationships with family and stuff, as we talked about, we’re not always necessarily meant to be in the seasons of Forever with somebody, even a business, even yourself, with the government and doing what you did, look what you’ve accomplished. Right.


Speaker B 00:54:22

It’s funny. That the book when I started writing my book, I initially started out, my intent was to build a resource, a book for employers and organizations and companies to be able to pick up the book and say, okay, here’s how to hack you’re happy. This is how you get your employees happier and to talk about the different drivers. So basically it’s my process in a book for organizations. But I quickly started to realize as I was writing it out that it’s actually two things. I’ve got two audiences. There’s the part where, yeah, it’s for organizations to actually have a roadmap on how to start to improve exactly what I just described. That process is described in depth there and how they can actually start to action immediately after they put down that book. But the other person is for is for that unhappy worker. Because for years I didn’t know what was missing. It would have been great to have a book to pick up, to say, I’m unhappy. Here’s my happy worker hack. I’m going to figure out what’s going on. And then I would have read that clarity. No, I understand my role. I’m really clear on that. I know the expectations of the organization. So clarity doesn’t seem to be an issue for me. Growth and development. Oh, yeah. I’m feeling like I’ve got no room to go, that I’m going to retire from the position I’m in. And for me, that is completely disheartening. That’s one of the things I need more of. Okay. And then to read through those ten drivers, and then I would have had a plan to say, okay, is there anything I could be doing. Internally here to work with the company to see if I can actually get more of what I know I need now that I’ve figured out what it is I need. And if not, maybe that maybe I need to make a plan to exit and to start thinking about that next chapter and what that might look like and to start actively working towards it. So it’s funny, it’s evolved into what initially was supposed to be business organization book. Now it’s going to have two audiences, so it’ll be able to help both of those audiences.


Speaker A 00:56:14

I love that hack.


Speaker B 00:56:15

They’re happy.


Speaker A 00:56:16

Yeah, I love that. I had that pointed out to me just recently here by somebody that read my book and I’ve had many people talk to me about it. And even the person I talked to interviewed yesterday, he says I’m about two thirds of the way through the book because I give him a copy when I seen him at an event that I was at in the fall. And he said, your book does this, this and that, and that was so far from me. And I’m going. Whoa. Really? And then I’m thinking about the other person that talked to me after they finished it and they it fits where you are between your six inches, between your ears. And I love that. That’s the way your book should be. It should fulfill. And you might think it’s only two, it could end up with 4810 different.


Speaker B 00:57:03

Rest of the audiences are yet to.


Speaker A 00:57:05

Be seen, right, exactly. So one of the things I wanted to talk about because we’re getting to the end of this beautiful conversation, which is unfortunate in today’s workplace culture, it can make or break a company being able to attract and retain clients, because we were just talking about this, so this fits just wonderfully. Even though a company may develop great work culture, you see many big companies laying off people in the tens of thousands recently. What, if any, are the ramifications for companies like ABC, Meta, Twitter, to name a few in the future trying to once again attract talent when they so easily dismiss them?


Speaker B 00:57:48

I think there’ll be a number of factors that will impact their ability or success with trying to attract talent down the line. In light of it will all depend on how that dismissal happened. How were they supported upon exit? What was their experience like when they were actually there? Right. If they were really not treated well and they felt completely disengaged, unheard, undervalued, well, then probably they’re going to have a lot of challenges trying to bring people in. But if they actually offered a highly engaging culture and that it was purely a financial decision and that they did the exit with a caveat that, hey, the minute things start to pick up again, we’d love to have you back and we absolutely so I think it really to the point on the exit? How was that actually? How did that transpire? What did it look like? And I think then that’s in terms of being able to recruit those that they may have let go during this adjustment, employee adjustment exercise, but then even about attracting that next employee again, so.


Speaker A 00:58:54

The exit is so important, though. That’s why I said what we were just talking about flows into this because it really concerns me and even keeping their current staff if the current staff are seeing the wrong way of people leaving like you look at all the people that are so upset at Twitter, for an example, and how the eggs it wasn’t dealt with very well by Elon and his minions, because there’s no way that there’s so many articles about it, so many people explaining what they went through, that there’s not some truth to it. So then your staff that’s still there, are they thinking to themselves or looking at their watch, I wonder what day I’m going to be let go.


Speaker B 00:59:40



Speaker A 00:59:40

No matter how good the culture used to be, or now I’m scared of losing my job, or the people at Meta or what people know as Google. Right. But it’s scary how easy it is where people discard their staff or throwing away a Kleenex in the garbage. People are humans. They deserve some level of respect, like a large level of respect, especially on an exit strategy, right?


Speaker B 01:00:13

Absolutely. But I think you also need to be regardless you talk about these large scale corporations that have recently had to let go. A lot of people it’s a job seekers market. I think those people will transition quite successfully elsewhere because it is at a very the labor market right now is where and this is globally, there’s more jobs than there are people available.


Speaker A 01:00:42

Yeah, skilled people.


Speaker B 01:00:44

I think these organizations, these large corporations, if and when they need to recruit and attract that high performing talent again, they’re going to have to get quite creative and innovative in terms of how they approach that exercise and what they do to be able to attract it. But ultimately, for your listeners who might be decision makers within organizations, happy, motivated employees tend to stick around. So they stay, they say, and they strive. Right? So they’ll stick around. You’ll get higher retention, they will say good things about you. I once spoke to a CEO, and I said, what’s your secret sauce? Marketing wise, I never see jobs posted, barely. And if you post a job, it’s filled within weeks. He’s like, I’ve never spent a penny on marketing, believe it or not. And I was like, what? What’s your secret sauce? It’s like, we encourage our employees to get on the glass doors of the world and to say, how is your experience working at this company? I want you to get on every review possible. Talk about it, tell about your experience, be it positive or negative. We just want you to share, let people know what it is like to work here. That in and of itself has attracted that next generation of workers for him that’s filled his pipeline in terms of attracting that next worker, highly motivated and happy employees. They will say good things, which will lead to attracting others because they want a piece of that pie. They will stick around so it’ll increase your attention. And then they’ll thrive, right. They’ll do better. They’ll give 110% because they’re invested in the broader purpose of the organization, into your strategic priorities as an organization. They understand that they’re all working towards the same thing you talked about the Paper Boy wrote earlier. I was reminded one of the things I often explain is it’s a NASA story. Now, whether or not it’s an actual true story, I’m not sure. But it would have been that one of the presidents was visiting NASA and he would have stopped janitor, and he would have said, like, okay, hey, how are you? Who are you? What’s your name? What do you do here? And he says, oh, I’m helping to put a man on the moon. Because he clearly understood that he was part of a bigger picture. He didn’t stop and say, I’m a janitor. No, he understood. And that means that NASA was really, really great at helping them all recognize the role they had, regardless of the role within the organization in that ultimate purpose, in that overarching vision of putting a man on the moon. So I just when you thought of that Paper Boy, when you said you were a paperboy, I just thought right away, like, you know, you’re you’re keeping people informed. That’s a great job. You’re keeping them in the know. You’re providing them with the stories they need to be able to do whatever that day. Anyways.


Speaker A 01:03:33

Well, the nice thing about you referencing that is it’s what we perceive things and how we look at it. It’s back to that old thing where we’d be in school and gossip starts or even the teacher would start a circle around the room. One person would be told something, and we’re talking about a bear, and it comes around the room and it’s an elephant, right? Everything’s just changed. And people look at things differently. And you and I could be in a room and we could hear somebody speak, and I get a completely different feeling about them, right, a different fuzzy, and you get anger, right? Or vice versa, or we both get the same thing. Now, it’s a better gauge of the fact that, hey, maybe we’re both right and that person is a D man. At the end of the day, that’s a good way to look at it. I was serving up people in news, even though in cold Canadian winters, I was freezing my butt off and wishing that I could feel my fingertips and wishing somebody would answer the door and pay their bail. You know what I mean? And you’d look at all that. But at the end of the day, perception is reality. Bottom line. Our perception.


Speaker B 01:04:59

How can I reframe this? Right.


Speaker A 01:05:01

Reframing is a good way. Absolutely.


Speaker B 01:05:04

When I coach clients, when they’re, like, going through this little pity party, they’re starting through their own pity party, I’m like, okay, how can we maybe reframe this? How could you look at this differently? You’re not allowed to look at it the way you’ve just interpreted it. I need you to look at it completely different. And that’s usually when they get their AHA moments, right? How could I reframe this?


Speaker A 01:05:23

Well, absolutely. It’s just understanding things. Sorry for the people listening. I have my snow removal crew here, and you can hear the equipment outside my window.


Speaker B 01:05:34

Maybe we’re about to have some noise happening in the back, too.


Speaker A 01:05:37

So we’re going to wrap up here right away. Lori, if you had to give our listeners one last closing message, what would you tell them in regards to giving a heck and never giving up?


Speaker B 01:05:51

That should have sent me that ahead of time. I could have been brilliant. I told you I’ve got to calculate my brilliance. Okay, what would I tell them in terms of giving a heck? Just, I don’t know, be present. I think if they need to give a heck, they need to be present. They need to disconnect. They need to be in the moment, and so they’re able to be aware of not only what’s going on internally with them, what’s going on with their own emotions, their own reactions, their own behaviors. But being present means you’re listening to others, but not just listening to hear. You’re actually listening to understand in that understanding lies that giving a heck. Right. People will feel like you actually give a heck towards them, about them. Maybe not towards them, but about them.


Speaker A 01:06:40

I love that it’s presence. Are you present? And that’s one of the things that I’ve struggled with, because I always felt like I was a very introverted kid. I had health issues, and I felt that I wasn’t heard. So then when somebody did want to hear me, I was so caught up into what I wanted to say that even when they were talking, I wasn’t really present. That, to me, is a skill I had to work on that. I still work on that today to not override somebody thinking, okay, I’m listening to them. I want to say this. So I’m thinking about what I want to say, yet I’m not really present on what they’re saying and disconnecting, and I find that some of the best conversations that I’ve ever had is what I don’t say. It’s not about what I say. It’s what I don’t say. And it’s being present and listening to that person and really being connected to them and being able to articulate back to people. So this is what I hear you’re saying, yes, absolutely.


Speaker B 01:07:46

Reflecting. Yeah. Reflecting is a key. Active listening. I teach that in my workshops, in my communication workshop.


Speaker A 01:07:52

But I still have to work on it for myself. I still have to work on it. I still struggle with it. Not because I don’t understand and know how to do it. Sometimes it just gets so excited that I just absolutely spreading the wealth of me.


Speaker B 01:08:13

My daughter, she’ll listen often to respond, and I always tell her, no, I need you to listen to understand, not to respond on. And then she’ll be like, Why are you saying that? I’m like because I could see it. You’re on the edge like this. You’re just waiting for me to shut up so that you can keep talking and tell me what your reaction, but you’re not actually absorbing what I’m just saying. So I need you to listen to understand, and then you’re absolutely going to have your turn, but I need you to listen to understand. And so she’ll be like, I’m listening to understand. I swear. I swear. I swear. I’m like, well, you might want to tell your face because it didn’t get the memo. It clearly is waiting, and it is purged to answer.


Speaker A 01:08:48

I 100% agree. The best thing that I think I’ve experienced in my life is when people will start talking to me and I’ll go, oh, you mean this, this and that. They don’t remember telling me, and they’re shocked. You remember that? Yeah, because I listened when you were talking to me, what you had to say was important because life is in session. This isn’t a dress rehearsal. I don’t know if I’ll ever see that person again. And I keep on telling myself that even if it’s at an event and I meet let’s say you and I met at that event and I’ve never, ever talked to you again, I want that to be part of my life journey. I want to understand who Lori is because I might never, ever get the shot again to understand what Lori represents as Lori. Who’s Lori? Lori tells me your origin that you told me today. I’ll never forget it. I just won’t. And on top of that, this is part of our absolutely. Mary Kay, too. I’m going to get my lashes done. Don’t forget. Bottom line, though, we are a culmination of our experiences, and we are developing our living legacy as we move along day to day to day. Right? What’s this person’s legacy? My legacy is in process. I’m building it right now. This podcast is evergreen. It’s out there forever. Well, I will listen to it again. I’m just like a coach. I listen to my game day real, right? I listen to my podcast, I go over my notes, and I learn from it. And then that cements in my mindset that Lori was kind enough to invest time out of her life that she’ll never get back because life is in session. Time is so precious we can’t buy it back. So I’m going to give just as much time, if not more, to ensure that I got the most value out of the podcast myself. It’s not just for my listeners, it’s for me. Right, I agree. Thank you for being on. You’re welcome. So our time is almost up. I’d like to respect our listeners and your time. However, before we end, can you please tell the listeners what’s the best way to reach you?


Speaker B 01:11:01

I am on LinkedIn. If they are on LinkedIn, so they’re more than welcome to Connect on LinkedIn. Lori Duguay, as well as my business page, the People Person, HR Growth Solutions. They can also check out my website. There’s a Contact us link on there www dot thepeopleperson CA and on Facebook I’m also there under the company. So the people person HR Growth Solutions Sweet.


Speaker A 01:11:28

And I’ll make sure that all goes into the Show notes. Those that are new to the show go to Give A Heck. You’ll see a bunch of buttons, a portal. You can click on the podcast portal, you’ll go in and you’ll see Lori smiley face, and below that you’ll see the show notes as well as links that she’s mentioned. I’ll make sure that they go in there. And any last closing comments that you like to add?


Speaker B 01:11:53

Not at all. Just thanks so much. This was amazing conversation. It’s always fun chatting with you and definitely look forward to our next catch up.


Speaker A 01:12:03

Sweet. I appreciate you coming on and sharing such knowledgeable, information and being vulnerable with the listeners and people watching. So thanks so much for being on Give a Heck. Lori, I appreciate your time and sharing some of your experiences so that others too can learn. It is never too late to give a hack.