From Shy Kid to Confident Leader Overcoming Fear to Find Your Voice with James Robbins

Are you ready to elevate your leadership game and create a work environment where people thrive? In this eye-opening episode, I sit down with James Robbins, a leadership consultant and motivational speaker who’s been transforming leaders for over two decades. James shares his journey from shy, insecure kid to confident leader, offering invaluable insights on how to inspire and engage your team.

We explore James’s fascinating origin story, including how a simple church invitation in college set him on a path to discovering his passion for helping others. You’ll hear about his experiences as a young minister turning around struggling congregations, and how these challenges shaped his approach to leadership.

Key Takeaways:

• The power of getting out of your own way and focusing on serving others
• How to create a positive “value exchange” in your relationships with team members
• The importance of self-awareness and continuous course correction in leadership
• Strategies for overcoming fear and bringing your authentic self to your work

Unlocking Your Team’s Potential

Discover James’s powerful “Nine Minutes on Monday” framework for driving engagement and productivity. Learn how simple, consistent actions can lead to dramatic improvements in team performance and company success.

The Call to Personal Growth

James gives us a sneak peek into his upcoming book, “The Call to Climb,” exploring the journey of aligning with your true purpose and bringing your most authentic self to the world.

This conversation is packed with actionable advice for leaders at all levels. Whether you’re managing a small team or running a large organization, you’ll find valuable guidance to help you inspire and motivate others while staying true to yourself.

Don’t miss this opportunity to learn from James’s wealth of experience and gain practical tools for becoming a more effective, empathetic leader. Tune in now and start giving a heck about creating a workplace where everyone can thrive!

Connect with  James Robbins:
Website: https://www.jamesrobbins.com/
Book: iwillclimb.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jamesrobbins97/
X: https://x.com/jamesrobbins97
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@james.robbins
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/james.r.robbins/?hl=en
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesrobbins97/

 

Connect with Dwight Heck:

Website: https://giveaheck.com (Free Book Offer)

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/give.a.heck

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dwight.heck

Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Giveaheck

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@giveaheck

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/dwight-raymond-heck-65a90150/
TikTok:https://www.tiktok.com/@giveaheck
X: https://x.com/give_a_heck

Chapter Summary(Full Unedited Show Notes below)

00:00:02
Introduction to James Robbins: Leadership Expert and Author
James Robbins is introduced as a leadership consultant, change specialist, and motivational speaker. His background in ministry and leadership development is highlighted, along with his accomplishments as an author and speaker. The host welcomes James to the show to share his life journey.

00:01:14
James Robbins’ Journey from Alberta to Denver
James shares his background, including his education at UBC and initial career aspirations in film. He discusses how working for a church during college led him to ministry and eventually to leadership roles in the United States, first in Florida and now in Denver.

00:04:08
Childhood and Early Experiences Shaping James’ Path
James recounts his upbringing on a cattle ranch in Alberta, describing how his childhood adventures fostered a love for exploration. He discusses his shy and insecure nature in high school, contrasting it with his innate talent for engaging with people that was initially hidden.

00:08:00
Overcoming Fear and Finding Confidence in Public Speaking
James shares a pivotal moment in his life when he overcame his fear of public speaking. He describes how a simple request to speak at a church event led to a transformative experience, changing the trajectory of his entire life and career.

00:16:54
Defining Leadership and Its Core Components
James discusses the essence of leadership, describing it as being an “architect of possibility.” He emphasizes the importance of inspiration in leadership, explaining how great leaders help people see greater possibilities for themselves and their work.

00:21:40
The Importance of Emotional Intelligence in Leadership
James explains the significance of leaders being aware of their emotions and energy when communicating. He shares personal experiences of overcoming imposter syndrome and the importance of focusing on serving others rather than personal fears when in leadership roles.

00:30:43
The Power of Values and Identity in Leadership
James discusses a psychological experiment demonstrating how grounding oneself in personal values can reduce stress in challenging situations. He relates this to leadership, emphasizing the importance of knowing one’s identity and values when facing difficult tasks.

00:35:59
Impactful Leadership Practices and Their Results
James shares examples of how simple leadership practices, such as caring for staff and helping them grow, can lead to significant improvements in company performance. He emphasizes the importance of consistent application of basic leadership principles for achieving remarkable results.

00:43:56
The Concept of Emotional Bank Accounts in Leadership
James explains the idea of emotional “deposits” and “withdrawals” in leadership relationships. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining a positive balance by consistently showing care, appreciation, and investment in people’s growth to offset necessary challenging interactions.

00:58:13
James’ Upcoming Book and Personal Growth Through Writing
James discusses his upcoming book “The Call to Climb,” sharing how writing it has been a cathartic experience. He explains the book’s premise, which explores the idea of aligning with one’s true self and purpose, inspired by his own journey of self-discovery and therapy.

01:04:12
Closing Message on Self-Belief and Personal Growth
James concludes with an inspiring message about the importance of believing in oneself. He encourages listeners to be “all in” on themselves, overcoming fears to bring their authentic selves to the world, emphasizing the potential for greater impact when one pushes past self-doubt.

Unedited Transcript of Episode:

[00:00:02 – 00:01:10]
Good day and welcome to Give a Heck. On today’s show, I welcome James Robbins. James is a rare mix of leadership consultant, change specialist, adventure and motivational speaker. He speaks to audiences worldwide helping them raise their performance to match their potential. He has been helping equip and transform leaders for over 20 years. In 2012, James wrote nine minutes on Monday, the Quick and Easy way to go from Manager to Leader. The book went on to be named a 2012 Business Book of the Year by Canada’s Globe and Mail. In 2018, he was named one of the top leadership speakers by Inc. Magazine. He has given over 3,000 presentations and shared the stage with John Maxwell, Simon Sinek and Bernay Brown. James newest book, the Call to Climb will be in bookstores everywhere on August 5, 2025. I’d like to welcome you to this to the show. James, thanks so much for agreeing to come on and share with us some of your life journey.

[00:01:11 – 00:01:14]
Dwight, Good to be here brother. Thanks for the invite.

[00:01:14 – 00:01:29]
Oh you’re welcome. I’m excited. Our pre conversation was. Was amazing. One of the things I was going to ask you since this is since there’s live so you live down in Denver and you were born and raised in Alberta. What, what, what drew you down to the States?

[00:01:32 – 00:03:18]
It was work. After. Yeah after I graduated from I would, I went to school at UBC out in Vancouver and my, my ambition in life I wanted to become a film director. I wanted to make money. And while I was in college I ended up being invited to this church that I didn’t really grow up religious but you know, he’s had. Had some kind of belief and I got invited out to this church by these college, other college students and so I went out. It was really young bunch of people. Anyways, I started going and enjoyed it and about a year later they one summer they said hey, do you want to work for us for the summer? And so I said yeah, sure. Beats waiting tables. So I ended up working for this church when I was in college and it was, it was great. It was a great experience because that’s where I really learned that I loved helping people. I loved things that are more purposeful. And so that literally put me on a different path and I ended up going into ministry. So this is a long answer to your question. How did you get to the US So I was working in ministry and there was a church down in Florida that they wanted someone to come in and, and sort of turn things around. And I had become known at that time for being able to do that go into a church and that was, you know, struggling, whether donations are low or it’s not growing or people are leaving. And I enjoyed those opportunities. I go in and, you know, get things. I don’t say get things fixed that sounds like they were broken, but get them healthy. Get them healthy again. And so that’s how I ended up going down to the U.S. i was in Florida for about 12 years and now I’m in Denver.

[00:03:19 – 00:04:08]
Wow. So one of the things I mentioned to you and the listeners, obviously the listeners that are the consistent listeners and the new listeners to the show, I like focusing on a person’s origin story. So that was part of James origin story. We’re going to delve more into it because as, you know, listeners and what people watch on YouTube, for me, it’s important that we connect with the person that I’m having a conversation with. And so far, James’s origin is. Is pretty exciting. We’re going to delve into it more. If possible. Please share. James, from your earliest recollections, anything that led you up to even what you were talking about, you know, going to ubc, you know, and your life in Alberta or whatever you were willing to share from your earliest recollections up to where you are, you know, as you said, you’re in Denver. Please, and thank you.

[00:04:08 – 00:06:54]
For sure. For sure. So I grew up not too far from where you grew up. We probably had very similar upbringings. I grew up on a small cattle ranch in the foothills of the Rockies. And it was just a fantastic place to grow up because I didn’t have to. I mean, if you grew up on a farm, you’re used to doing chores and working pretty hard. My dad didn’t push me that hard. And it was a fantastic place to grow up. I would get up on Saturday mornings, go out of the house, and we lived on this hill. My father had built our house and you know, we just like it was a homesteaded. Like we started with just this chunk of land, but every morning on a weekend, I would get out of the house, open the door, and just below me was this valley with this creek going through. It’s called Mosquito Creek. And for me it was just. It’s like your adventure awaits every Saturday and every Sunday. And just me and my dog. I was sort of like the middle child. So my older siblings were too old to, you know, hang out with me. My younger was sister was too young. And so it was just me and my dog. And then we would head down the hill and mess around in the creek and have great fun and I would come back and I was like, I did that every weekend of my life. And so I think that fed into me a love of adventure. It’s interesting how our upbringings shape us and ways that we don’t even realize until we get older. And I think many of those things, obviously being on the farm, growing up like that gives you a certain view of life. But also I grew up, I was this red headed, freckle faced kid, totally shy, introverted. My older sister tried to convince me I was adopted because I didn’t look like anyone in the family. And you know, one time she was like, your old family didn’t love you, then they gave you up. And I was like, no they didn’t. So the trauma begins early. But yeah, I mean those were just amazing years for me. At the same time I came out of that. By the time I got into high school I was pretty shy. There was a lot of insecurity there and I don’t know exactly where all that came from. It’s not like my parents were mean or cruel or anything. They weren’t. But yeah, I came into high school with a lot of insecurity. I didn’t know that I had more. I had a lot of just natural innate talent for engaging with people. But it was so buried, so buried in insecurity. And so I. I spent a lot of years just trying to not be noticed and not stand out and, you know, not fail too hard.

[00:06:55 – 00:07:59]
Yeah, it’s. I do understand that I was very. High school was interesting. I wouldn’t want to go back, to be honest with you. It was. There was lots of things that other people seen in me, but I was. I was shy. Thus I got bullied. Right. Had a few health issues. Just some things that went on that really. I didn’t start to blossom until I went to college. My first time in college, which I didn’t stay. And I was going in for a bachelor of science majoring in computers, minoring in math and didn’t last. Still insecure a couple of years later, got more security, moved up to the city of Edmonton and went to Nate for electronics engineering. But I can. Even then I was still strugg. What was it like for you? So when you. When you first decided to go on some of these adventures you talked about, did it take you a while or what? Did you notice a change overnight? Like was it a slow process for you to get confidence and bring out those natural conversation skills you talked about?

[00:08:00 – 00:13:34]
I think it was a couple of steps in that process. One would have been when I went to college and, and I told you about starting to work for that church. Well, before I knew it, I was in a leadership position, at least for a bunch of college students. You know, it was like, hey, organize the Friday night activity. And hey, you got to go set up the volleyball nets. And so I was thrust into this place where I had to speak up and I had to organize things and, you know, ask people to help me out. So that was the first time, right? You just, you just got to do it. And I think from a speaking perspective, I remember I definitely didn’t believe I could speak in public. And one day, again, I’m a college student and the preacher of this church comes to me and he says, hey, we would like you to get up front on Wednesday or the Wednesday night service and tell everybody what you’re learning in your Bible. Just take five minutes. And right away I was like, no, like, I can’t do this. Because if you rewind. In my life, when I was, the first speech I ever gave was seven years old and it was a complete disaster. And I was asked to give a thank you speech to the hockey coach at the end of the year banquet, right? So they told me and I was like, okay, whatever. And I remember feeling nervous about it, like as a seven year old, like, I’m, you know, I’m going to the electric chair or something. And I remember, like, my parents trying to coach me through it, saying, like, you know, get up front and say, you know, on behalf of, you know, whatever team was called. And I remember the time, like, I didn’t even know this word, behalf. I was like, what is behalf? Like, that literally, that word makes no sense. So I just avoided preparing anything. And, you know, I always like to say, if I could go back in time to one moment in my life, I know where I would go. I’d go to the back of an Oldsmobile in 1977 and sit beside this redheaded shy kid who’s looking out the window on the way to the banquet, you know, terrified. And I’d tell him, like, hey, buddy, it’s going to be okay. So anyways, I get up, I get up to do this, this speech, and all I can, I just freeze. And all I could get out of my mouth was, thank you. And then I handed him the gift and I got down. But even as a seven year old, I knew, like, that totally sucked, man. Like, that was terrible. And all my friends knew it was terrible, but it was a little bit like Dwight. It was a little bit like, not that we had post it notes back in those days, but it’s like someone who put a post it note on me that said not a public speaker. And so I just avoided that. And then I was in the ninth grade and we had to do an assignment. Everybody had to give a speech, a presentation. And so I was like, oh, like, not again. And I did the same thing. I just avoided it. And eventually it came and I had to do it and I was totally unprepared and I just bombed it. And then I was like, it was like four or five more sticky notes. Not a public speaker. So by the time I got to college, I was first going to. I first went to University of Calgary and I walked into a class, I sat down on the first day, profs going through the syllabus and he says, part of your final grade, everyone’s going to do a presentation up front in front of the class. And I was like, oh, heck no, I won’t. And I literally left the class, marched across the campus to the registrar. That’s back when you had to like fill out something with a, with a pencil to withdraw. I withdrew from the class. And so all of that to give context. So when the preacher said, hey, can you, you get up and give this five minute speech? But I distinctly remember this was a, it was one of those life altering moments. I distinctly remember sitting on the grass by the football field on campus and I was just moaning about having to do this, you know, whatever in a few days. And it was almost like a voice said to me, like, could you just for one time, just once, like not care what people think and just, just go for it? Like, even if you’re going to fail, like, at least let’s make it a great story. And I was like, okay, I’ll do it. So for the first time, I prepared and figured out what I was going to say. And the night that I got there, I remember still being like really nervous. But then I remembered that conversation. I just said, okay, I’m gonna go for it. Like, let’s make this a great story. If I fail, I’m gonna fail big. So I got up there and I spoke with passion, with purpose. I was excited. And when I got done, person after person came up to me and said, hey, you gotta do more of that. And that was like a light bulb moment for me. And it wasn’t like this magical moment where all of a sudden I became a great presenter. That took years and still Ongoing. But it’s amazing how something so seemingly insignificant as a moment like that, like that question. Could you just for once do something without caring what people think about you? And how that moment absolutely changed the trajectory of my entire life. My entire life. And yeah, I don’t know what question I’m answering right now.

[00:13:34 – 00:15:56]
No, you did a great job. That’s ex. Wow. You know, it’s. It’s such a pleasure, people listening, watching, you already know this. It’s such a pleasure to have a conversation with somebody that knows how to tell a story and to share that you may not realize it. Those watching will realize that. Those listening go watch it on YouTube. I could see the emotion in your face as you were sharing that from that seven year right to grade nine to going to. Throughout the whole process. And you evoked emotions in me from my fear of that and all the different times when I was challenged and I ran away from it. We have a lot of commonalities as I mentioned, but we won’t get into me. But you did it. Like it was great, Cher. Like I could feel that emotion. So thank you so much for sharing it. You did answer the question. Very much so. We all have our trials and tribulations and fears and, and a support system to help us hopefully. But for you it was external. Maybe it was God talking to you. Maybe depending on what your belief system is today, maybe it was just, you know, the Holy Spirit coming into you and saying, hey, it’s time for you to quit with the running, plant your feet, it’s time to be planted and, and you know, there’s people out there that you’re going to touch their lives and having that pivotal moment that you shared where it was, that’s so impactful and profound. Even you saying, going back to your seven year old self. There’s times in my life I wish I could go back and tell me to be a better listener as we talked about in the pre recording. Right. Because being a good listener helps us be a good speaker, helps us be a good leader, helps us be a good parent, helps us be a good friend. Like just there’s so much we can learn by listening. But thank you for sharing that story. That is so impactful. I hope those listening are watching. I hope that impacted you because it sure impacted me. I could feel that, that your tension initially, I could feel your joy. I could feel all of it. So good job. If nobody’s told you that you’re great at it and it doesn’t, I’ve, I’ve had Lots of speakers on doesn’t mean they’re good storytellers. Anybody can learn to be scripted and go speak, but it really takes a true, a good human being to be able to share the, an emote the right emotion with their conversation through a speech or through this podcast. So thanks, James. I appreciate that.

[00:15:56 – 00:15:58]
Thank you, Dwight.

[00:15:58 – 00:16:52]
You’re welcome. So James, before we go on and talk about leadership and that one of the things that I’ve found, because I have asked people, I do do kind of polls if they really understand what the definition of leadership is. There’s, you know, shocking when you Google it and see like there’s overlapping, there’s people’s own definitions. But I found this one to be very impactful. So I’m going to read this out. So for the people listening watching, you know, obviously James and I understand this, but this was a very impactful definition. I found a leader is an architect of possibility. I’d never thought about that before. One who inspires trust, navigates uncertainty and empowers others to see beyond their, their limitations, unlocking potential in individuals and within a collective purpose. What do you think of that definition yourself, James? What would you add to that in your own words, what a leader truly is?

[00:16:54 – 00:16:59]
I love that definition and I think that’s especially the architect of possibility.

[00:16:59 – 00:17:03]
Yeah, I never thought of that until I read that. Just. Wow.

[00:17:04 – 00:20:32]
Yeah, because when you think about possibility like this, this sort of dovetails into the topic of inspiration. Like when you think about, we think about inspiring people, inspirational leaders, or maybe you saw an inspirational movie and we throw that word around. But you know, what is it? What does it actually mean? Can we break inspiration down into some core opponents? And the reason I bring this up is because I was studying this a while ago and there were two guys that in a sense have done the most work on inspiration is Todd Thrash and Elliot. Forget his first name. But what they found was inspiration is there’s some kind of spark that starts a fire which then leads to some kind of action, right? So I go watch Rocky 3, you know, as a kid and the story sparks me and it creates this fire in me. And then I go home and I start doing sit ups, right? So that this kind of that cycle. But where I see the power of inspiration is inspiration is about possibility. It’s changing what you think you might be able to do. So I can watch a Rocky movie as a kid and then start doing pushups because I think I can be like him. It’s possibility. So back to the leadership thing. I think all of us, most of us, most people are. We want to strive for something right? Like, you know, your whole brand about give a hack this idea of live your life with purpose. We want our life to count. So when somebody can come along and help us see that there’s something bigger for us, something better for us, something more meaningful for us, whatever that might be, it takes our eyes out of the weeds for a moment and then we go, oh, I hadn’t thought about that before. That’s exciting. And the best of the best leaders are able to do that in any situation, whether they’re running, I don’t know, a manure farm or whether they are saving patients from cancer. Is being able to get people to realize there’s something bigger, there’s something better, there’s more I can do. And then once we see that, we want to close the gap. So I think that’s an important part of leadership. Of course, there’s a lot of other components that go into that. You know, that’s. That’s sort of the 30,000foot view of leaders. To be able to cast that vision. It’s like when Napoleon. Napoleon had all of his soldiers carry like a baton in their. Their back in their backpack, because that was. That meant you’re a leader if you had that. Because he believed everyone had the possibility to be that. And he was the one that said leaders are dealers in hopes. And I think that that’s so true. If you’re a leader, you run a small business. You know, I know what that’s like, right? The stresses. And sometimes you’re like, you have some tough months, then you’re like, oh, I got to make payroll. And it’s so easy to just get bogged down in the weeds yourself and forget that you’re a dealer of hope. And so in the midst of your own, you know, sometimes the ceiling falling in, how do you create hope for people that work for you? And I think when you can do that, man, you’re in a class of just a few.

[00:20:33 – 00:21:40]
Oh, I have. I totally agree. At the end of the day, leadership is something. If you are a leader, you’re somebody listening to business people. I have listening, are you a true leader and enjoy being a leader? Because you also emote that energy to people, right? As a leader, you have to have that confidence. You’ve probably seen yourself, and that’s the select. There’s a select few, and then there’s a bunch of people that are leaders that don’t necessarily know how to. They’ll go up and they speak as a leader. Maybe they’re just in a boardroom with 12 people or in their front of a room of 300 people and people just aren’t engaged because their energy level isn’t there. How do you, as a leader, when you communicate with people, do you check your emotions right away? When you’re about to communicate, do you think to yourself, how am I feeling right now? Am I going to go in and talk 10% above everybody else so that they engage and understand my energy needs to be greater than theirs? Do you have a process as a leader that you put yourself through to make sure you’re in check?

[00:21:40 – 00:28:22]
That’s a great question, Dwight. And I think honestly, for most of my career, I have not. I have. For most of my career I struggled with an imposter syndrome about leadership. Even though the results would show that I’m good at it. A lot of my career was like, you got the wrong guy. Like, let me get out of this position. Because it was because when you’re, when you’re being a leader, you’re constantly having to get out of your comfort zone. Like, constantly. Like, I don’t know of a time where you can just, oh, okay, we’ve got it all figured out. Everything’s all set up. Like, especially in today’s world, you know, we in a VUCA environment, everything’s just changing so rapidly and, you know, now we got AI knocking on our door, which will be the biggest shift, I think, in all of our lifetime. And leaders have got to be able to guide people through all of that change. So back to the question about energy. I guess one thing that I did do well, I don’t know if the motive was good. I think earlier in my career when I would come into a meeting or I had to give a presentation, I just knew, like, you have to show up, buddy. Like, whatever you need to do to get your energy there, you’ve got to show up. Because I think a big motivator was I just didn’t want to suck. I know that’s like not the best. Not the best motivator, but I just didn’t want to suck. I was so ego driven, so many fears. So, yeah, a lot of times it was just, okay, you’re going to flip a switch here. I used to have a ritual when I would go to work and there was a. To the building, there was one of those doors with the handle and the thumb thing that you push down. Because I go in the back door. Yeah, I had this ritual that every time I grab that and click that down. I would say to myself, you’re here to serve. And then I opened the door. It was just this moment to catch myself. Now you don’t. You can have whatever mantra you want, but it was just this reminder, like, get your eyes off of you. Because that to me is the best way to protect myself from my fears holding me back. And to case in point, this goes back to when I was still a college student actually and working in, in ministry and it was a large congregation and actually this was in Toronto. I, I was in Toronto for the summer and there was a, a crash on the subway. The subway had crashed into another car. It was all over the news and a bunch of people died. Well, anyways, in this weird sort of chain of events, one of the victims, she was a 20 year old woman and she was killed. And they didn’t belong to any church. And so their family called our church and said, we need someone to do the funeral. Well, all of our preachers were out of town, actually out of the country at some thing. And so I was like, I was like the next in line. I’m just this young college student, I don’t know what to do. And they’re like, hey, you have to do this funeral. And I’d only been to two funerals in my life and they had never been to take notes on how to do a funeral. Right. So again, it was akin to that moment when the preacher asked me to get up and share for five minutes. I was just like, oh, like I can’t believe I gotta do this. And so I rallied a bunch of my friends, hey, come with me and you do some singing and you’re gonna do this. And it was more like to support me as I went. And I, I’ll never forget this, showing up at a funeral home. I have no clue, no clue what I’m doing. At least I don’t think I do. And I walk in there and there’s a casket and she’s laying in it, it’s open casket, she’s in her wedding dress and people start filing in and they are wailing and people are grieving. And I was, it was so overwhelming. I pulled into one of the. You know how funeral homes have all these little rooms, like I, these rooms, like, just like whoa. And I remember thinking, I just want this over. Like, I can’t wait till I get over this and out of here. And it was like, this has been such a hard week. As soon as I said that, it was just like right on the heel of that statement, in my mind, it was like another statement that was like, you’re not. That you’re not the one that’s had the hard week, man. And it was this complete pivot point. Like, literally, for days, I’d been whining about this assignment that I had to do as a leader. And here I was so focused on myself and so focused on, I don’t know what I’m doing, and I don’t want to screw this up. And I even brought some of my friends to be my emotional support people. And in that moment, I just thought, man, you have one job, and it’s to go out and say something to comfort these people. And I walked out, and that’s what I did. Whether I did a good job or not, I don’t know. But what I know is that once I got my eyes off me and I started thinking, I’m here to serve these people, and I’m here to say something that might shave the edge off their grief, I didn’t think about me anymore. And once I did that, I was able to show up. And you would think that I would have learned the lesson there. I’ve had to repeat that over and over and over. And even now, when I go to a conference and I’m speaking, let’s say, at a big HR conference, there could be 800 people in the audience. I always take a moment before I get up, and I just. I look out over the crowd, and I try to think, what’s going on for these people’s lives? Like, they’re so busy. They just got this break come to this conference, but there’s all this pressure on them. Like, just get up and help them. And the more I can step into that place, the less I’m looking at me and my fears. And so I found that that’s been a key, I think, a key for any leader. If you want to show up, it’s really getting your eyes off yourself and just. And get over yourself. Of course you’re not going to be perfect. Of course you’re not going to do everything right, but go with a good heart. I heard someone say this online. I forget his name, but he said when we’re in competition, something like when we’re competing, there’s only one winner, but when we’re serving, everybody wins. And wow. Yeah, I wish I could. Rory. Want to give him proper credit for his quote, but he’s a brand guy. But, yeah, that’s so true.

[00:28:22 – 00:30:42]
The greater good switch. That’s what that’s what was going through my mind, that one little phrase as you were talking about it, looking out at the audience or about to, you know, you’re. You’re gonna do this funeral. And, you know, it wasn’t about you, right? Initially. I know as a leader, one of the things we’re always taught. Taught about, you know, don’t make it about you. Make it about everybody else. One of the things that worked really good for me is I had to start healing me and all those little insecurities and all these things. And I still have it happen. I remember one of the last. When I was. I spoke on the stage at. I think it was 20, 21, I was in Salt Lake, and people were at the. Off the side. Some people were filming me because my nervous energy and realizing that I needed to deflect it. I was sitting and bouncing. I was literally bouncing. And. And my. I was going like this. They’re going, what are you doing? I said, I’m trying to shake off my nervousness and getting up on that stage and making it. Not about me, making it about me, them. And I see how they’re happy with the other speaker, and I want to reflect that energy. And I’ve done that many, many times. Even in a room talking to 50 people, I’ve been outside of it going, look like you. I look inside, see what they’re looking, and I’m thinking, okay, always remember, one person, one person out there could be having the worst time in their life, and my words could impact them. If I can impact one person out there and have my energy up, be insightful, not make it about me, I’m going to do good. And sometimes I could get done speaking, whether it’s 15 minutes, whether it’s an hour, and I get off and I forget. And what do I mean by that? Listeners and people watching, I just have, like, a wave come over me, and I’m relaxed, and I can’t remember what I, you know, all the details of how I felt or what I did. And then I count on the people, like you said. They come to you and they say, oh, you did such a great job. And I’m like, really? You know what I mean? I don’t know if any of what I just said makes sense, but you being a person that’s spoken thousands of times, you probably understand what I’m saying. It’s just, you got to find what you got to. You got to find to be there for the people that you need to serve, right? And it’s just no matter how nervous I get, I just have to show up. Have I had some stinkers? Unfortunately yes.

[00:30:43 – 00:34:16]
All we all have for sure. You know what’s interesting though, like this idea of getting out of your own way and if there is a time though where yourself comes into it. I remember this was some cool research. There’s a, I didn’t know about this but they’re in psychology. There’s a test they do called the Trier Social stress test. And so basically what they do, it’s a test to stress you out, to put you in a state of stress and then they do all these studies on you. So the stress test goes like this. So you come in as a volunteer, you don’t even know what you’re getting into and then they’re going to say hey Dwight, thanks for being here by the way. So here’s what you’re going to do. You’re going to get up in front of a panel and you’re going to give a five minute presentation on why you deserve this fictitious job. And they can give you the job description and that’s what you’re going to do. And so immediately most people are stressed because I got to get up and speak in public and I’m not prepared and I’ve got to argue this point that I don’t even necessarily believe in. And then they get up and they speak in front of this panel and the panel is like stone faced, like they don’t laugh at your jokes. It’s like speaking to a bunch of teenagers, right? The toughest audience in the world. And so when you’re done they don’t even like no one claps. And then they tell you stay on stage please Dwight. And then they say can you count backwards from 2048 by multiples of 13? And then now you’re starting to think of math. And then they start putting a time pressure on you. Faster, you need to go faster. So anyways, that’s the triasocial stress test and it stresses everyone out and how they know is because they, they swab your saliva before and after and, and measure the cortisol and it spikes. Well one variation of the experiment, this is fascinating, one variation was they had people come in but before all of that they said hey Dwight, I want you to take for a moment, take a moment, I want you to think about like some of your values. And you know, what are some of your values? And so you know, Dwight, you tell me what your one of your values is. And then we say Dwight, can you just write a couple of paragraphs Or a couple of sentences about why is that a value of yours? Why is that important? How do you live that out? And then you go and you start writing all that out. And then they’re like, awesome, thanks. Hey Dwight, you’re gonna have to give up this five minute presentation. And then he puts you through the test. And what they found was when the people got off stage and they swabbed their saliva for cortisol, it hadn’t spiked like biologically. They were not in a state of stress. They were activated. Their heartbeat was up like they were in the moment. It’s not like they were, you know, on a Sunday afternoon in the Caribbean. They were activated, but their body wasn’t in stress. And it’s like grounding yourself in your identity, like in who you are, the things you know about you. It’s sort of, it’s like it inoculates you. It’s like a vaccine for the virus of that holds us all back, which is the fear of others, the fear of judgment. Because when you know who you are, you don’t need others to tell you. When you have an opinion of who you are, you. You’re not going to look for the opinion of others to fill in the gap. And I just think that was such a fascinating study to hear that like actual science behind grounding yourself in your values.

[00:34:16 – 00:35:57]
I love scientific research in regarding to that though I know you, I forget what you mentioned in regards to energy. And you know, as a leader or speaker, one of the things that I utilize all the time. And yes listeners, you’ve heard me talk about this before, but I follow a little acronym. So if I feel that stress or fear automatically. Now I’ve conditioned my brain, like any habit, to think about fear. And I break it down to face everything and rise. It’s a positive thing. Not anything negative, just, okay, you’re gonna face this. You’re going into this room of hostile people because they’re stressed out. They’re not against you, they’re just upset, they’re stressed. Like you were saying with those stress tests, okay, you’re going up on the stage or you’re going to do this workshop. And you know, I just keep on telling myself, okay, I know you don’t like this, but people need you. This isn’t about you. And it’s always about getting out of my own way like you talk about. And sometimes it can be interesting. Can you tell me a story though, about something that’s been impactful, that has changed people, individual, group, whatever, in regards to you Speaking, your leadership skills involved in that. Like, is there anything that really sticks out in your mind over these thousands of conversations? Like on stage is still a conversation. Maybe it’s one way, but it’s still. You’re com. You’re molding to people, your emotions and your intellect. Is there anything that’s been really stood out in your mind that you knew changed a group of people or like I said, even just individual.

[00:35:59 – 00:40:54]
When I wrote my book nine Minutes on Monday. The idea behind that, it’s a leadership framework where you’re taking the. In a sense, the things that drive engagement in people, right. Like we all have these, what we calling. I call them engagement drivers. They. Their emotional and psychological needs that all of us have. And when we get those needs met, it creates engagement. We focus, we lean in. Right. Like the need to be more than a number. When a boss cares for us at work, then we reciprocate by wanting to not let them down and to do a good job for them. Right. When someone is. Is helping us grow again, we. We lean into that sort of workplace. So to answer your question, not so much like one presentation, but what I would say is that when we put people through this leadership framework, we’re getting them to do, in a sense, things that everyone knows they should do, but they just don’t do it. Like care about your staff. Help them grow, recognize when they’ve done great work. Give them feedback on their progress, even if that means holding them accountable. Help them understand that they’re. They’re part of something larger with their work. Help them have significance there. Don’t micromanage them. Instead, give them some autonomy. Provide a great environment for them to be part of a team that’s healthy. And you as the leader being an example, right? Just all these little things and it’s a little bit. So we’ve seen such amazing results from this. I mean, literally, like companies turning around. Like one manufacturing company was on its way for a $3 million loss and we got the leaders just to start doing these little things. I’m going to care about my staff. I’m going to help them grow. Six months later, instead of a $3 million loss, they had a $1.2 million profit. It’s a $4.2 million swing. But that’s what happens when people. Same product, like, nothing changed. Same product, same company, same buildings. What was different? The people. So in fact, I was speaking in a. At a Canadian mining company last year just north of Edmonton and, well, in Fort Saskatchewan, as you know well. And they have about 3,000 employees. So I was just meeting with their leader. So I don’t know, 150, 200 people. And I opened up the presentation by saying if I could give you 300 employees that you didn’t have to pay for and they were already trained, would you want them? And of course, well yes, of course we would. But what’s the catch? I’m like, there’s no catch. That’s 3,000 people just engaging 10% more. And these are the principles that engage. So when you think about like Dwight, think about yourself. I’ll think I think about myself. Like me on my worst day versus me on my best day. That’s a pretty big gulf, right? Like how productive I am, my attitude, how much I get done, how good I am as a leader on my worst day. And, and on my best day that’s a massive difference. Well, everybody, so for those of you who are listening and you have a company and you have employees, it’s the same things. Multiply that, right? So you have 10 employees. All those gaps exist within every one of them. And what makes a difference when somebody, even if someone does come in on their worst day, but what can boost their performance? Leadership can. And so when leadership applies the basic principles consistently, that’s where we’ve seen the greatest results, right? That’s where we’ve seen companies turn around. That’s where we’ve seen people going from hitting 68% of the sales goals to 98% of their sales goals because the managers just started doing the basic things. Caring like, hey Dwight, heard your mom, you know, is in the hospital. How’s she doing? Just being genuinely interested in you, Coaching, having conversations that, you know, where do you want to go in your career, Dwight? And then consistent conversations to help you get there. Appreciating when you’ve done great work, recognizing when you’ve done great work, helping you see why that’s important, giving you feedback. Like I say, everybody needs a mountain to climb, a reason to climb it and enough rope to hang themselves along the way, right? They need, they need mat, they need a goal, they need a reason for it and they need to not be micromanaged. So anyways, all those things, it’s a little bit, you know, Dwight, it’s a little bit like having six pack abs, something I’ve never had. But it’s not complicated to have six pack abs. It’s not like, let’s wait on some new research to find out a new way to get six pack abs. No, it’s going to Be diet and exercise, sure, genetics can be a part of that, but for most, for most people, they don’t have six pack abs because they don’t do the basic things consistently. That’s why I don’t have them. If you punch me in the stomach, you will not hurt your hand.

[00:40:56 – 00:40:58]
I’ve earned my cake, thank you.

[00:40:59 – 00:42:34]
But it’s like that, it’s like that. It’s leadership is like that. I mean, I don’t know that there’s not a lot of people that are just natural leaders. I am not a natural leader, but I can apply these, these principles. I can care about somebody. In fact, this is a question I’ve asked in so many workshops. I’ll ask someone who’s been one of the best bosses you’ve ever had, one of the best leaders you’ve ever worked for, and then why? And write it down. And so everybody in the audience will write it down. And then I’ll get, if it’s a small group, people shout out their answers and we write them on the board. Or I have them split up and then I have them look at the list of things and then, and it’s things like they were an example, there’s usually four categories. They were some sort of an example. They pushed me, pushed me, challenged me. They cared about me, they believed in me, supported me. Everything fits really in one of those four buckets. But almost everything that’s said once we look at the list, then I say to them, do you need to go to, do you need to go to college to have to be any of these? Do you need an mba? Do you even need an education? In fact, the list, 90% of the list becomes things that your grandmother probably told you. It’s literally about being a human being, a good human. That’s what people tell me. That the most impactful boss I ever had cared about me, pushed me, believed in me, challenged me.

[00:42:36 – 00:43:55]
Yeah, kindness, empathy, all the other things that I can think of are so important for leadership. But really, at the end of the day, we dial it down for leadership. It’s important for people that work with one another, not even leaders to one another that are just in a cubicle across from each other or they work beside each other every day. I’ve communicated with people that have had difficulties, people they work with and just communicate with them, right? Their clients come out on the finance and I’ll say, well, tell me what’s going on. And I’ll say to them, have you ever asked them, just had a sincere conversation, hey, I know you come into work tents all the time and you snap at people. What’s going on? Is there. Do you need to talk to somebody? Is there something going on in your life? And a lot of times you’d be surprised. Maybe not you, but other people listening or watching. You’d be surprised how that can open up a communication stream with that person. And they let their guard down, their shoulders come down. They’ll share information that they wouldn’t share normally because somebody actually cared. So if leadership. I believe what, what I see, if a leadership can do what you’re talking about and really have kindness, empathy, compassion toward others, it can be a domino effect. Would you agree where it can help your staff be better to other staff?

[00:43:56 – 00:45:36]
Absolutely. Recently, I was speaking to two different senior executives from different companies on the same day, and both of them said the exact same phrase. They were talking about a boss that they’d had in the past who’d cared about them. And they both said, I would have run through a brick wall for that guy. And that’s the power of reciprocity. It’s that connection. You don’t have to be friends with the people that you lead. And in some ways, you know that that can be tricky anyways. But it’s. It’s like for those of us who played sports growing up, your coach was never your friend, but a good coach. You knew, cared about you, pushed you. Yeah. Sometimes yelled at you, though I don’t advise that. But, you know, even at times when they were really hard on you, in a sense, you gave them a pass in certain ways because they cared about you. It goes back to the. Goes back to one of the scriptures. Love covers over a multitude of sins. I say that sometimes to leaders, when you care about people, you know, no one’s going to be perfect. But when you’re imperfect, at least you cared about them. You know, people sort of. They give you more grace. In fact, there’s studies on this. Doctors who. The difference between doctors who get sued for malpractice and those who don’t has nothing to do with the error that they made. It has everything to do with bedside manner. I think this was in Malcolm Gladwell’s book, if I remember correctly. Think about that. Whether you get sued or not as a doctor has more to do with if your patients feel like you care about them.

[00:45:37 – 00:47:10]
Wow. Never thought about that. But that is true, though. Even in my industry, there’s. There’s not malpro. I don’t call it malpractice, but there’s people that get sued because of unintentional or intentional lack of information. And a person does something with investing or investing insurance or whatever, things don’t work the way they want. And the study that I read said that the advisor that goes through all the stages and empathizes and has a communication and tells them that this. There’s no guarantee, right? The future is not indicative of the past and just has a great conversation with them. The study said that if. If something crashes or something doesn’t work, they’ll reach out and say, hey, what’s going on? And they’ll listen to your reasoning and say, well, you know, this is what’s going on. And then somebody that didn’t do it, right, Won’t even get a phone call, except they’ll get a call from the regulator or they’ll get a call from somebody challenging your errors and emissions, insurance and stuff like that. So it’s intriguing what you said. That just dawned on me that it happens in my own industry and I’m not a doctor, right? I’ve had nobody come after me in 23 years to sue me. Maybe it’s because I do a great job of communication and just make sure that they understand and they feel comfortable and appreciate it. I think appreciation is so underutilized for people just appreciate and been sincere in compliments or in conversation, 100%.

[00:47:10 – 00:51:12]
It’s. When you think about it, every relationship is a value exchange. And people don’t like to hear that. But every relationship is a value exchange in that there’s an exchange value going back and forth. And when it gets out of balance too much, there’s a problem in the relationship. This is the wife complaining that the husband doesn’t help around the house and they’re having to do all the work, right? That’s an imbalance in the value exchange, whether it’s real or imagined. Even if it’s imagined, it’s real to that person. So it’s similar in leadership. Sometimes I use the analogy with people that we work with that it’s like a bank account and there’s deposits and withdrawals. So sometimes I’ll get a call, right? Like I had a call with this manufacturing company, wanted to go in and they were like, we need to enforce these new standards. We gotta hold people accountable. Can you help our supervisors, like hold people accountable more and be more strict? And I’m like, yeah, of course. But that’s half of the equation that. Let’s go back to the bank account analogy. That’s a withdrawal and they’re not Wrong, you have to make them. But, but how are you going to cover that? With deposits. So you think of it like your own bank account. You always want cash in there. Cash, right. You need cash flow. It’s no different in relationships at, at work or as a leader. There’s deposits and withdrawals. Withdrawals are. I need this from you. Hey, you need to do better. Hey, I need you to come in on your day off and help us out. Withdrawal is like, hey, you’re not, you’re not performing the way we need you to. Those are all withdrawals because they are, they’re, they’re challenging for people. We don’t like those moments. The deposits are. I care about you, genuinely interested in you as a person. I appreciate you, I recognize you. I’m investing in your growth. I’m trying to help you grow. I’m reminding you that your role plays something a bigger part, right? So leaders have to always be thinking of this value exchange and that I gotta make sure that I’m depositing because sometimes there’s a lot of withdrawals, right? Maybe it’s end of quarter, end of year and you’re getting pressure from above, right? You work in a big corporate company and you’re getting pressure from your boss and where are the numbers, where are the sales, where are this? And they expect you to transfer that pressure. And so maybe you have to, you have to transfer that pressure. Okay, well those are withdrawals. Doesn’t mean it’s wrong, but they’re withdrawals. So how are you going to cover with deposits? So when you think like that, it changes things. And sometimes the withdrawals are external. Like we were working with a manufacturing plant, it was down in the Georgia and the, the air conditioning went out and the plant was like hot as Hades. But people had to work. Well, that’s a withdrawal, right? Working in a, in a lousy condition is a withdrawal. So then the leader has to think, I better bring deposits. How am I going to do that? So when you, that’s a very binary way to look at leadership, but it’s actually quite effective. It’s just always have your deposits outnumber your withdrawals and you’ll be a great leader. Because what happens, people will self correct the balance sheet. So if you’re my boss, Dwight, and all you do is come in and ask me for stuff and you don’t care about me and you just want, want, want. Eventually what I’m going to do is I’m going to pull effort, I’m going to equal out the balance sheet. And I’m going to be like, I’ll come and do my job, but don’t ask me to do anything extra. I’m not going to say that to you. I’m going to say that to my friends. Yeah, I’ll come in and do it, but I’m, I’m not going to do a minute extra. So that’s how human beings create equilibrium in the value exchange. We don’t even realize we’re doing it sometimes, but that’s what’s happening.

[00:51:12 – 00:53:52]
Yeah, I was thinking about that because I’ve used that myself when I do life coaching. I do the exact same analogy about giving deposits and withdrawals. And I’ve taught families how to utilize that even for. So take it out of leadership. But you mentioned at the end, it’s how you can, you can win. It is about winning. You want to win people’s trust, you want to win people’s respect, you want to win them having confidence in you. And you want to win in feeling all that and knowing that you’re a good person majority of the time. You’re always trying to support. I’ve taught people. I utilized it myself with my own children because I was a single dad. They’re all adults now of five kids. Right. Full time. And I had four of them daughters. So I utilize making sure I put deposits. Some of the, some of them didn’t matter. I couldn’t put enough deposits in one withdrawal. And I was like, that’s it. It didn’t matter. It doesn’t. So my point is it doesn’t work on everybody, but it does work on the majority to actually listen to people. Give them some, give them some, you know, high five. I hear you did really well. They’re a subordinate to below you or they’re in another group. You just hear it and you give them a high five. Or you, you know, just pass them in the hall or whatever. It’s the same with your, your kids. How many people do your kids come home and they’re excited about getting a 8 out of 10 on an assignment or they’re excited getting recognized. Do you actually listen? Do you actually say, well, Jimmy, Sally, that is fantastic. Good for you. I’m proud of you. Now tell me more about it. So now you’re engaged in finding what it is because maybe they didn’t tell you that they were doing it. Maybe they were scared, nervous, like you and I have talked about it. But that deposit withdrawal, I love, absolutely love that you brought it up because it really, it stems from raising kids to Working with others to being a boss, to being a leader. It’s about making sure you put more deposits in. Hopefully then you’ll ever take withdrawals. But sometimes, like you said, it self corrects, you can be taking a huge withdrawal like a warm warehouse or a warm factory to work in and people are going to be all, this sucks, but they’re so good to us otherwise. The 99% times when it’s nice air conditioned in here, they do this for this, this, this, this. And that’s what we want. We want people to always have that. It’s going to sound weird, but that warm and funny fuzzy feeling when they think about their boss, when they think about their supervisor, their, their co worker, their parent. Right. So I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that.

[00:53:53 – 00:55:14]
I’m happy to. Happy to. I think every once in a while it’s good as a leader to just ask yourself, what’s it like to be one of my staff? Because some weeks I think it’s probably pretty good to be one of my staff. And then other weeks I might be on the road or traveling and then I forget to check in or I just get so busy and then I just like leave them hanging. And then I think, what’s it like to be. Have me as a boss on those weeks? And I’ll probably not great. So I just find that, you know, maybe I should be better at this by now. But to me it’s just this constant. There is a constant need for correction. It’s a little bit like flying an airplane. Not that I’ve ever flown an airplane, but my friend has and he told me that you can set the waypoints, but every few minutes you got to check in and tap it back in because wind’s blowing things, taking it off course. Like there’s no such thing as a straight line in the, in the air. I think it’s the same with growth. There’s no such thing as a straight line. So I think the best we can do is just to consistently be vigilant, consistently be aware, self aware and yeah, don’t judge yourself for it. You know, it’s okay. I got to be better. All right, I’ll be back.

[00:55:14 – 00:57:41]
What great messages you’re sharing. No such thing as a straight line. Right. You always got to be course correcting those listening and watching if that’s, you know, there’s so many great nuggets of information. Go back, start taking notes, go onto the website, there’ll be the full unedited transcript. Read it, do something. But the Nuggets of information like of knowledge and assistance that James has shared has been phenomenal. So much commonality between the two of us, I guess as leaders and people that have, have done things we’ve read a lot of. We’ve read a lot. We’ve evaluated our character building moments, our potential mistakes, made them into life lessons and, and then you have nuggets like that. No such thing as a straight line. There isn’t. You always have to correct. And I always talk about the camping and climbing and it’s, you know, I talk about that quite often. And then you use the mountain mentality or not mentality analogy. Literally at the end of the day you’re either camped in life on a hamster wheel and going to work, go home, get paid and. And you’re just stuck or you’re somebody that’s always on the climb and you only temporarily camp to have a rest or something tragic’s happened in your life, loss of life or something that’s happened where you take a temporary camp. But you’re always thinking in your back of your mind, I need to get back to the climb. I need to not break that promise to myself that I’m always going to be the best version of myself, that I’m. Because other people are counting on me and the person counting on me the most is what I look in the mirror. So I really appreciate this has been a fabulous conversation. I knew it would be great. But I really appreciate everything that you’ve shared. It’s always nice for people to hear it differently than they’ve heard it from anybody else. And you’re very unique in how you present and share stories. So I appreciate that. One of the last things I want to get to and then we’ll wrap up the show was your book. Obviously I mentioned in the bio you’re releasing a new book come 2025 here, but you wrote a book called Nine Minutes on Monday. The Quick and Easy Way to Go from Manager to Leader in 2012. I myself wrote a book and found it very cathartic and it helped me realize things about myself both where I patted myself in the back and I wanted to kick myself in the ass.

[00:57:41 – 00:57:41]
Right.

[00:57:42 – 00:58:12]
So it was, it was kind of a, you know, five, six months of going back and forth with the editors and just shaking my head, not realizing things that I had done. Not necessarily negative, but just not giving myself that pat of the back and things that I did that even though I corrected it, I never really give myself that kick in the pants. Like why did you do that. But it was very good. So what was it like for you writing your first book and now your second? Did it help you move forward in life? Did it continue to drive you forward?

[00:58:13 – 01:01:23]
The first book, I would not say was cathartic, was just a mountain to climb to actually be consistent and write it. This book coming out has definitely been cathartic. And I can’t tell you how many times I was in the cafe writing, and just a well of emotion came up. And all of a sudden I have, like, tears coming down my eyes, I think, hoping nobody sees and not even knowing where the emotion came from. But the second book is. I mean, it. The. The genesis of it goes back in my life, I don’t know, 15, 20 years at a time when I was really unhappy. I was really discouraged, depressed about my life and what I was doing. And it was the first time that I remember thinking, I’m going to go to therapy. And, you know, you. And I grew up in a generation where, you know, to go to therapy was. I mean, it’s different now, but just even 20 years ago, to go to therapy was like. It just took a lot of humility to do that like this. There was shame for men, shame to go to therapy. But anyways, I went to therapy, and this guy was great, and he gave me this book to read. And the book was by a guy named Dr. James Hollis, and it was called Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life. And it spoke to me in such a profound way because he spoke. He speaks so eloquently about the collision of selves, right? There’s the you that comes out of high school, and you’re. You’re doing all the things you’re supposed to do. And then eventually there’s this other self, and that’s the one that’s more tied to your soul, to your purpose, and it wants to go a different direction and. And there’s this collision and at that moment. So, you know, a lot of the times this happens in midlife for us, but in that moment, you are summoned, and in his words, you are summoned to a conversation with your soul. He said, but most don’t keep the appointment. So that stuck with me. And that became actually the idea for the book that’s coming out. And I wrote it in a story format, but basically it’s about someone who is not happy with their job, and they are down in South America with work, and they end up winding up with their car breaking down. They wind up in this village, this remote village in the Andes, only To find out that they’ve been expecting them. And that’s because they’ve been drawn, they’ve been called to climb this mountain. It’s a special place where you’re called so that you can have a conversation with your soul that you can get realigned with your life and stop living everyone else’s life for you, stop living your parents life for you and really step into who you are. Because in the book I talk about that. This is how I see it. The ultimate purpose in our lives is to bring the most authentic, honest version of ourselves to the world. And that really is the gift. What we do as a career, there’s a thousand things we can do, but our real purpose is just to bring us to the world. So that’s what the book’s about. And we’re just wrapped up the final editing and I’m super thrilled about it.

[01:01:23 – 01:03:00]
I would be too. Just to remind people it’s called the Call to Climb Correctly and it comes out August 5, 2025. Yeah, I could feel your. Your emotion just talking about the book. Or even those moments sitting and writing and hoping people don’t see you tear up or cry. I remember sitting on my couch because I gave up my office during the pandemic and decided just to continue to work out of my house. And I was sitting on the couch one afternoon, the editor sent back one of my chapters and they had put in. They’d sometimes rewrite things the way they thought it was. And I rewrote this part of a chapter and the emotions that hit me about something that happened, let’s say 30, 40 years ago, all of a sudden we’re really real. I never lived them. I realized I never lived those emotions back then, but now that I was actually facing it and having to write it the way that it should be written as opposed to what the editor thought I. The emotions just like I cried. It was. It was cathartic. It was just like, wow. I never realized that I compartmentalized and punched that down and never allowed it to come out. So I appreciate you sharing that, being vulnerable about your book. I look forward to reading it actually. Hopefully you’ll be posting about it. Remind people that it’s coming out. Maybe you’ll have a pre order, but yeah. Anything else you want to share about either or of the books?

[01:03:02 – 01:03:09]
Not so much about the books. I mean, I’ll give you some links. I’m not sure if you have show notes or what, but I’ll give you some.

[01:03:09 – 01:03:14]
Oh yeah, I do very detailed show Notes? Yeah, go ahead. Okay, read them out though. Go ahead.

[01:03:14 – 01:03:57]
Well, the, the book that’s coming out, there’s a website that’s set up for it and it’s just iwillclimb.com I will climb.com and you can go there to get updates on the book. And if you want to be part of the pre orders or the launch, that will be awesome. And I just want to say thank you to you. I’ve learned a ton from you. Just even on the podcast as we were talking before we started the show here. You know, I have a podcast as well called Born to Climb and I’m only in my 20 Something episode, so I’m way behind you. But I’ve enjoyed this experience. I hope the people that are on my show feel like I do being on your show. So I just want to say thank you for having me here.

[01:03:58 – 01:04:10]
Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. The last thing I’m going to ask you, James, if you had to give our listeners one last closing message, what would you tell them in regards to giving a heck and never giving up?

[01:04:12 – 01:05:57]
I would say this. So much of life, if we are going to use almost like a poker analogy, is that you’ve, you’ve got to be willing to, to be all in on you. And I can’t think of a, of a better thing to do than just to believe in yourself. And for those of you who maybe even come from a faith background, whatever your faith is, you know, you may have a strong faith, but nobody has a proof of their faith. It’s just a decision. I’m going to believe this. And it’s similar to, I think how we should view ourselves is I’m just going to believe in me. That’s one of my mantras I have, I believe in me when things are dark and things are tough or I’m staring at, you know, oh, wow, we’ve got to get to this goal or we’ve got to make more money or how are we going to do this? And right after that question, you know, there’s that moment of doubt, moment of fear. I reground myself in. I believe in me. And even if I don’t in that moment, I just decide to do it. And it literally is like having the poker chips and just I’m shoving them into the middle. Be all in on yourself. Because the greatest thief and the greatest travesty I think in life is when we let our fears stop us from bringing who we are supposed to be to the world. And yeah, I have A lot of examples of times I didn’t bring myself to the world out of fear. When you get that out of the way, man, the impact that you’ll have is greater than you can, can have ever imagined.

[01:05:57 – 01:08:32]
Wow, what a great ending and closing message. The little mantras, the little things that we say to ourselves that help us stay grounded, to continue to move forward are things that I think everybody needs because we constantly need to remind. Just like I remind myself when I have those fearful moments that fear stands for face everything and rise. Just things like that are fear knocked at the door, faith answered and no one was there. I tell that to myself all the time, too. Just little things that. Because obviously, as we’ve, you know, I’m faith bearing. I’m a practicing Christian. I don’t care if you are a person that worships the universe, worships trees. At the end of the day, if you don’t have faith in yourself and humankind, you’re just on that hamster wheel. You’re camped. And if that’s where you chose to be, you know, and that’s where you want to be, great. But most likely you’re not listening to my show if you’re that person. So I appreciate you, James. For those that are new to the Give a Heck podcast on, on YouTube or on any of the podcast platforms, go to giveaheck.com really easy giveaheck.com go to the top podcast. Click on it. You’ll see James’s picture, you’ll see detailed show notes as well as all the links to his, like, to his website, what he talked about. I will climb. Pretty sure I was on it last night already. I think I discovered it. I’m not sure. But I’ll have all the links in there, all your social media. There’ll be chapter summaries in case you found something that was really interesting, which will encapsulate in a couple sentences what was at this, pardon me, specific time that we communicated. And there will be the full unedited transcript of the whole podcast on the website so that you can go and look what you want. And hopefully you’re going to reach out to James. Like, unbelievable. Like the, you know, I, when I started this podcast, one of the things, James too, that you know the listeners and you should realize with my faith, I believe God brings me people that others need to hear that, that he gives me the eyes and the foresight to go through 10, 8, 10 applications a week that I get. Like, people go on and want to be on my show on a couple different services. And I don’t know, I just have this sense, innate sense that when I’m reading it I get this feeling and, you know, God’s talking to me. Maybe it’s just my brain.

[01:08:32 – 01:08:32]
Whatever.

[01:08:32 – 01:08:47]
I find people that I resonate with that are going to resonate with my listeners and they teach me a ton and they remind me and ground me and continue for me to be climbing. So thank you so much for being on. Any last final words before I wrap up?

[01:08:48 – 01:09:02]
Thanks for being on. Thanks for having me on your show. I really appreciate it. Thank you for those who are listening who stayed through this whole conversation and yeah, I would love to connect. You can find me on LinkedIn or just online.

[01:09:02 – 01:09:21]
Yeah, again, there’ll be all those. All those links will be in the show notes. Check it out@giveaheck.com so thanks so much for being on Give a Heck. James. I appreciate your time and sharing some of your experiences so that others too can learn. It is never too late to give a heck.